Tabs issues in Xojo

General
1

Xojo is wonderful, and Tabs are getting better in 2014r1, but they are still frustrating to use.

I’ve requested that tabs be made static, and the browser navigation within them be done away with. Please sign on: <https://xojo.com/issue/32900>

[quote]Xojo tabs are dynamic, with browser-style navigation. This is unproductive. The tabs are very confusing and frustrating to work with, because they are constantly changing their headings and content. Please change the tabs to the way they worked in the old IDE, i.e. static. We don’t need browser-style navigation for the tabs - it’s overkill and continually ruins workflow, forcing us to open new tabs we already had opened, because the IDE decided to change the tab heading and content, and it’s impossible to remember which tab was what previous to the IDE hijacking it, so browsing is useless.

The problem I see most often is search results hijacking a tab. To solve this, please either create a dedicated tab for search results, or make clicking on items in the search results list open up new tabs when what’s needed is unavailable. Please don’t make the search result hijack the currently open tab; it’s unproductive. Thanks.[/quote]

The new off-window tab items, when selected replace existing tabs. Whatever tab is active gets replaced by the off-window tab selected. This is very confusing. Tabs need to stay where they are, and should not keep changing their headings and content. The feedback I submitted was closed, because the behavior described is by design and not a bug, but this issue should not be closed. The behavior may be by design, but that is just not good design; it’s unproductive:
<https://xojo.com/issue/32899>

[quote]Steps: 1. Open enough tabs that the >> icon appears at the right of the tabs bar
2. select a visible tab
3. select a tab from the >> popup menu

Expected Result:
The tab selected from the >> popup menu should appear at right and scoot the other tabs over, curtailing their headings.

Actual Result:
The tab selected from the >> popup menu replaces the tab previously selected. This is confusing.

Workarounds:
The tabs need to stay where they are placed, with the same headings they were opened with. The tabs always changing their headings and content is extremely confusing and not productive. Please change the tabs to the way they worked in the old IDE, i.e. static. We don’t need browser-style navigation for every tab - it’s overkill and continually ruins workflow, forcing me to open new tabs I had already opened, because the IDE decided to change the tab heading and content. To make this work by design, just add a dedicated tab for search results (I will add that idea as another feedback). Thanks.[/quote]

Are the lock icons on the tabs are supposed to keep them from changing their heading and content? The lock icons don’t seem to do anything.

Thanks,
Aaron

2

Feature request might have been a better type for your issue about the way 32899 behaves.
It’s not a BUG since it behaves precisely the way we intended and implemented.
Feel free to ask that it be changed in terms of type but I doubt it would be reopened as it does behave as designed & intended.

3

Yes, thanks Norman; I realized after I submitted it that I should have selected “feature request” rather than “bug”.

4

That might just have gotten closed as “won’t implement” as it is the behavior we intended

That menu only exists when the tabs can’t be compressed enough to put more of them in the tab bar
They are ones that you could not open as tabs but wanted to
If they didn’t replace the selected one then you only have the choice of

  • you can’t do anything since you can’t even close them when they are in the spill over
  • you make them replace an existing one when you select one as then you can do something (edit their content, close them, etc)

making them impossible to do anything with / to seems pretty useless so we decided on option 2

5

Well, no, there is a third option, which is the way it used to work, which is also what I suggested in the feedback subimssion …

Simply allow the thing to show more tabs. Compress the open tabs horizontally and curtail the text. That’s how the old IDE used to work, and it was perfect. We could have as many tabs open as we wanted. They might each only show one character of text, but often that’s all that is needed.

The decision to have one tab replace another is bad design. It is confusing, does not make any sense, and as the old IDE demonstrated, and I’ve just explained, there is no need for it.

6

Granted, the decision to always show the full text of a tab heading goes hand in hand with allowing the tab headings to constantly change via the browser buttons, and as it is hijacked by clicking on search results. If you get rid of that, and allow the tabs to be static, then there is no need to see the full text of the heading, because it’s easy to remember what we put where. When the tabs are always changing, not only heading and content, but now even location (!) it’s just totally insane and truly it’s barely workable. Static tabs are really the only way to go to maintain a project and have a logical workflow. Shouldn’t have fixed what wasn’t broken. I love the product; this is honest feedback.

7

How about at least making HIDE TABS work? It hides the tabs until you click on another window/module in navigator then they pop right back open again… I find them to be absolutely useless, so would love to be able to keep claim on that little piece of real estate.

8

[quote=75344:@Aaron Hunt]Well, no, there is a third option, which is the way it used to work, which is also what I suggested in the feedback subimssion …
[/quote]
Yeah we tossed that option out when we rewrote the tabs as it was deemed pretty awful when you got 50 tabs open and could see one letter per tab
What I listed are the two options for the tabs as they exist now

That one has a bug report Dave ?
Case # ?

9

[quote](Aaron Hunt) Well, no, there is a third option, which is the way it used to work, which is also what I suggested in the feedback subimssion …
(Norman Palardy) Yeah we tossed that option out when we rewrote the tabs as it was deemed pretty awful when you got 50 tabs open and could see one letter per tab
What I listed are the two options for the tabs as they exist now[/quote]

I understand you’ve thrown out the way Tabs used to work, but the reasons given aren’t persuasive. The new way is clearly not an improvement over the old way, functionally!. They look better, for sure. But, what is more important? How it looks, or how it works?

I’ll say it again, and I’ll continue to say it until it changes - Xojo Tabs are horrifically confusing in the Xojo IDE. You’ve got browsers within browsers, seraching within searching, and it’s just near chaos.

Dave S, I’d like to know how you use the Xojo IDE without Tabs, because I find it impossible to use the IDE without opening Tabs. It is impossible to find anything in the Navigator for projects of any size. I barely manage to use these tabs, for all the reasons I’ve already explained. I can’t believe anyone finds the Tabs workable; they work directly against logical workflow …

I still haven’t seen an answer to the question about the Tab lock icons. What are they supposed to do? They appear to do nothing. If they would “lock” the tab, so that the contents would absolutely not change, that would be extremely useful.

I continue to recommend Xojo - love the product and the company. Please do something about these Tabs. Thanks.

10

To me the Tabs are 100% meaningless… What good is having 10 Tabs with the same “name”?
Granted, navigating using the Project Navigator is a royal pain, especially when you click on an event name for a control, and the listbox collapses leaving the cursor somewhere else entirely… but I see zero benefit to the existance of the tabs at all

11

Not only the same names, but changing names, changing content, and now even changing positions! Insane.

But how do you work without them? It’s impossible to work trying to scroll the navigator through a thousand items to find things in any substantial project.

12

You keep asking the same question… I work without them by not trying to hassle with them… rather spend my time looking for what I want then picking thru useless tabs.

Besides a properly formed project makes it easier to find things

13

Because I haven’t received an answer.

That doesn’t tell me anything.

Well if searching all the time suits your work style, I guess you could be happy with the Navigator, since it forces everyone to constantly have to search for everything all the time. I believe we should not have to spend our time searching all the time. That’s what Tabs are (ostensibly) for - to park some code so we can go directly there and not waste time searching. In these Xojo Tabs the code is not parked as it should be; it changes constantly.

Well don’t imply that I don’t know how to structure a project, please! I organize my work very well. Scrolling through the Navigator alone to find everything is just not practical.

Again I ask, is the lock icon supposed to park the Tab, and keep it from changing? If yes, it doesn’t work. Could I please get an answer to this question? Thanks.

14

Just an FYI for anyone interested, I received an answer about the Tab lock. It is indeed supposed to lock the tab contents and heading, and it currently just doesn’t work. There are more pressing issues for them to fix. I can wait :wink: