RealBasic is now XOJO?

REALBasic is now XOJO? When did this happen? I’ve been away for some time from realbasic but this is just weird.

I was a big time RB user from version 1 through version 3.something. I don’t understand the weird name. It makes no sense to me at all.

Also, the licensing is strange now as well. Now it’s yearly? Is that correct?

I remember back in the day when the RB forums were buzzing with conversation. Seems like a ghost town here now. Is this new business model working?

I was going to purchase a new version of RealBasic but I’m not sure I will since it appears I can’t actually purchase a version/copy… not keen on this yearly licensing scheme. I liked the old licensing where you could just buy a copy of RB and make programs all you wanted for as long as you wanted. They used to have a hobbyist (non-commercial) pricing structure as well back in the day.

And charging for plugins and all that as well…wow… must have had some major corporate philosophy change over at realsoftware or something. It’s gone from a really cool company that really promoted it’s product and tried to provide a ton of support with a massive user base that was active as heck on the forums to like some weird company catering to corporate customers charging for everything with like 5 guys talking to themselves on the forums.

Very strange. Oh well, I need to go find my old version 3.something and re-install that again and figure out how to get onto the old RB forums.

You should read http://www.realsoftwareblog.com/2013/06/real-studio-is-now-xojo.html

Licenses you buy get you the current version + updates for a year
Not radically different than the Rb 1 days
You can still buy a single platform license which is roughly equivalent to the “personal” licenses from way back when

[quote=136191:@Ivan Thomson]
Very strange. Oh well, I need to go find my old version 3.something and re-install that again and figure out how to get onto the old RB forums.[/quote]
V3 won’t run except on an very very old mac
The RB forums are online but you can’t post.
They’re read only

For some perspective
The old RB forums had 265843 posts. The new forums have 127,138 posts (about 50% of the old forums)
The old RB forums had 45738 topics. The new forums have 14,586 conversations (about 30% of the old forums)
Total members 7542. The new forums have 9,374 members (120% of the old forums)
The old forums were around for about 7 YEARS. The new forums have been up just over a year.

Not sure I’d call that a ghost town.
Like the old forums there are a lot of prolific posters - and a lot more lurkers & readers.

This is also a major concern within our company because this is no good indicator. We’re on the verge of starting some major projects (5 year+) and whereas a couple of years ago the programming language was no issue, nowadays it’s a hot topic in the meetings.

I raised this concern already in July and then the reply was because of the vacations (sounded legit), but since then I keep tracking the online member numbers and they haven’t changed (20 looks like the maximum number I’ve seen since then). I’m still pushing towards using Xojo for those projects, but the other voices are getting louder every time… :frowning:

[quote=136191:@Ivan Thomson]Also, the licensing is strange now as well. Now it’s yearly? Is that correct?

I remember back in the day when the RB forums were buzzing with conversation.[/quote]
If you remember the forums, then you remember the annual license renewal. The rules haven’t changed much, except now the IDE is free to use. You just can’t build an application. Once you buy a given version of Xojo, you can still use it forever. There is no requirement for renewal unless you want a newer version of Xojo. Been that way for a long time.

I haven’t been as active posting on the forums, but I’m on pretty much every day and I haven’t noticed much change in quantity or quality of posting. That’s part of the reason I don’t contribute as much, you all are doing a great job answering the questions that arise. I’d say the reports of Xojo’s demise are greatly exaggerated.

Welcome back, time traveller :wink:

Won’t you simply breathe and rest a little. You must be fatigue from that long trip through the ages.

By any other name, a rose is still a rose. You say REALBasic, I say Xojo. Has not changed much. The IDE is different but the language is the same. You can take your millenium code, load it into Xojo, and off you go. The licensing is very close, too. Prices have lowered down, though. Not everything new is bad.

The Wayback machine shows a price for the standard RB 3.2 license at $149.95 back in Feb 18, 2001.
https://web.archive.org/web/20010218061813/http://www.realbasic.com/store/commercial.html

Today it is $79. I’ll say that is an improvement. And the license is forever as well. The one year thing is for free updates.

I was on the old forum for the longest time too, and still search it when I remember having read something there. But life goes on. This is the place where we mingle now. Don’t be stranger. We kept a seat for you :slight_smile:

:slight_smile:

The sense I get is not that the community is shrinking, but that the Forums are not of much use to most people. The old NUG was a lively place with a good deal of valuable information from knowledgeable contributors. One has to peruse a vast wasteland of off- topic, uninformed, and bloated posts to glean much from the Forums.
I would encourage you to try out Xojo. I think it’s still alive and well.

Correction: It’s actually $99 for a single platform Desktop license (the equivalent of Realbasic standard).

Sorry, €79.00 = $99.00.

Sorry, have to disagree with you there, even at the risk of perpetuating an off-topic bloated post… The old forums were quite lively and useful, and I still find a lot of useful information there. I myself was just thinking on Friday that it is very quiet here … though it might have to do with the fact that the 3rd quarter release is overdue, so the usual uptick every 90 days is completely absent …

For my own part, I’ve been posting less here because I’ve been too busy actually programming. So there’s that.

[quote=136191:@Ivan Thomson]I remember back in the day when the RB forums were buzzing with conversation. Seems like a ghost town here now.
[/quote]

I have been using the product since version 3 about 13+ years ago.

While i looked at the old forums and occasionally posted, I mostly used the NUG. Some who preferred the NUG don’t post as much here or at all. Also someone who was a prolific poster that tended to cause controversy and thus generate a lot of post recently left.

That said I think Norm’s point about the # of posts here in the last year compared to the old forum’s 7 years is valid and would say overall this forum is more active than the old.

You misunderstand. You can keep using the licenses for the versions released the license period forever (Or as long as they can be run on the OS). That is the same as it ever was.

What is different is that instead of paying for every new release you get all the releases during teh period of the license.

That said the braking up of the functionality into separate licenses can either make make it less expensive or more expensive that in the old days, depending on what you need.

In the old days RB Standard only ran on and compiled for 1 platform, and you could not use container controls, but IIRC you could do console apps and could use teh RB database but not the DB server plugins.

Now the equivalent version the IDE can be run on any platform (but compile only for one) and can use container controls and the SQLiteDB , but can’t do console Apps … and IIRC is still the same price as RB Standard was all those years ago.

RB Pro allowed you to compile for all platforms but ran on only one. It allowed you to use container controls, create console apps and use DB servers. Back when I originally purchased April 2001 I paid $369.69. Accounting for inflation that would be $496.51 today.

The closed equivalent today would compile for all platforms and RUN the IDE on all platforms and be:
Desktop: 299
Console: 299
Database: 299

So about $900 and THAT is a HUGE increase compared to RB pro when i bought it, if you need Console and DB and primarily use the IDE on one platform… (if you have a Mac with virtualized Windows that is fine)

If you need Desktop + one other that is $600 or about $100 increase… A significant price increase but you can use the IDE and compile for any on any platform on any platform so you get something for it …

That said IMO console is WAY WAY over priced…

Obviously they are trying to push people to Xojo Pro (which now includes web and may - with a price increase - include iOS on the future) with the higher annual renewal cost to help maintain their income …

That of course is there right. If it does not work out for them they will change the pricing structure.

[quote=136238:@Roger Clary]The sense I get is not that the community is shrinking, but that the Forums are not of much use to most people. The old NUG was a lively place with a good deal of valuable information from knowledgeable contributors. One has to peruse a vast wasteland of off- topic, uninformed, and bloated posts to glean much from the Forums.
I would encourage you to try out Xojo. I think it’s still alive and well.[/quote]

The NUG also had its share of this

Oh he’s still around and reads the forums as a guest. We know that for 100% certainty :slight_smile:
He’s just not able to log in under his old account as he suspended his forum account & decided to leave based on the post on his personal page.

I’m certain he’ll eventually read this too. Hi BH!

Personally, I think part of the forum issue is Xojo just works better than RB. I find I don’t have to look for workarounds and fixes as often I used to with RB. I was dragged kicking and screaming from RB to Xojo, probably one of the last Xojo adopters. Now I fire up the last release of RB and it feels like a time warp to 10 years ago. Of course there are some things I still want to improve in the Xojo IDE, but it has become fairly rock solid on Windows, where I code the most. I had trouble with the tabs initially, but now have a workflow that keeps my searching to a minimum. I can’t say anything about the number of posters, licenses, coders, etc… because I have no information…but for me personally, I am able to spend a lot more time coding and getting projects done. Just my 2 cents and perspective on this issue.

There is another non-obvious reason. There’s a VAST amount of information already out there that’s readily useable nowadays. A huge amount of code from 15 years ago still runs today with little changes. Everything in the old forums and in the NUG archives still comes up in searches and I find myself linking to it pretty frequently.

Forums are very active with very recent functionality (which isn’t in the old resources) and with new users (which still don’t know all the places where information can be found).

I wish that were true Merv.
Because licensing is the way it is there are still lots using quite old versions on very new OSes.
They have to hunt for more work arounds because they’re using such old versions but they exist in surprising numbers.

The forums seem to have a lot more lurkers than before.
One this esoTalk doesn’t track is the highest number of users online at one time like the old forums did.
So that kind of comparison is harder.

The forums are plenty active.

[quote=136295:@Norman Palardy]ecause licensing is the way it is there are still lots using quite old versions on very new OSes.
[/quote]

I think the LONG gap between the last RB version and the first Xojo version combined with the Navigator issues (along with the new pricing) may have gotten many out of the habit of keeping current. (If Xojo started going with time limited licenses I would drop it)

Right before the cutover i renewed an old RB Pro for as long as i could … (I did not do that for my RB Enterprise because i was not using web at that time and financially renewing RB Pro made a lot more sense).

Not sure what I will do when that runs out… I doubt I will renew everything as I don’t make enough with Xojo to pay for the renewals.

  • Karen

Back in 2007 got two years without renewing, then renewed in 2012 for two years and did not see any reason to move to another version, until I tried Xojo back in 2013 by pure curiosity. Then for the first time went Web with Xojo, proceeded to the MAS… Now awaiting iOS…

I was amazed when Xojo allowed me to take code unchanged from 2002 and it ran just fine without any modification. VB code from the same era is now lost for current versions of VS.

As far as older resources go, I was a subscriber of the NUG at one time, but lost a lot of it when I switched email client a while ago, and never quite liked the list format anyway. I found much easier the forum format. I have found jewels of knowledge in the old forum still recently, and often search this one for things I know I have seen before. To me the old forum and this one are just a continuation, and several prominent posters of today I knew back in the days.

I just wish esotalk search was more advanced. Often enough I know for a fact something is there, but cannot locate it. Criteria such as AND and NOT would be highly desirable.

All in all, though, I think RB culture from way back is still as vibrant as when I started with it around the end of 2001.

I try to use Google exclusively to search in the Xojo forums. It seems to give better results (but it may be that I’ve learned how to control the searches better there)