Real Studio Classic

What are the odds of a Real Studio “classic” release for bug fixes? There are many people that have expressed on the forums that they cannot move to Xojo in its current state (in particular laptop users with space issues). Eventually I will be moving to Xojo when things get better in with the 3 Panels (Navigator, Library, Inspector) but for now I just can’t work in it for production work.

Visual Basic 6 released several Service Packs after VB.NET was launched. I for one would be willing to keep paying a maintence contract on “Real Studio Classic” to get some of these long, outstanding bugs fixed (not asking for any new features).

Hopefully zero. They need to focus forward. If you’re uncomfortable with the new IDE, I’d suggest straddling. It’s possible to do that for a release or two if you stay away from new features. So you can develop in Real Studio to take advantage of what’s comfortable, build in Xojo to take advantage of framework fixes.

The transition to “the new IDE” back in 2005 was a long term proposition for many of us. It took more than a year before I could convert my biggest customer’s product successfully. I really feel like this transition should be 1 or 2 releases for most of us.

Maybe you can move later to Xojo when r1.1 or r2 is out.

Unfortunately I have to earn a living, “straddling” is time consuming and difficult for me to pull off. As far as taking it over to build in Xojo, the build process is not the same. I have a couple of screens that make heavy use of the Einhugur StyleGrid and in RS the whole screen pops up instantaneously, all at the same time, very seemless, looks great. But when the same code is built in Xojo, two of the Einhugur grids pop up immediately while the rest of the screen lags behind about a half a second. At this point I have no idea what it is and haven’t had time to dig into because my busy season is the spring / summer. But the build process is not exactly the same, you don’t get the same application cranked out.

As far as moving forward, in general yes, certainly. But just cutting off RS and advising customers to move to something that is not nearly as productive, is not very customer friendly. If enough customers are willing to pay maintence to get a few more updates done while we wait for Xojo and the comapny can make money or break even on it, I don’t see why this would be a problem.

Christian, thanks, eventually I will have to move, but I think it is going to be a few iterations before things get ironed out. And if they don’t get serious about the Navation issues, it is pointless for me to even try, that is a serious issue in my opinion. Huge productivity sink.

You make it sound like Realstudio was one road, and Xojo is another road… and that is not true

Xojo is RealStudio 2013r1 (with a different name)… are they changes? of course…
but there were changes from RealStudio 2010 to 2011 to 2012 … (except the name stayed the same)
and yeah… one of those changes was the IDE…

So you can stay with RS2012 for a while… or use the RS2012 IDE, and the XOJO compiler (which fixes a lot of things)

but I might suggest that if Einhgur works differently that that is where the problem lies… not in Xojo

RealStudio IDE was better than xojo IMO just needed a little TLC.

No, I’m not saying they are two roads. I’m saying is the “Real Studio Expressway” had a “Construction Ahead” sign so I reduced speed and found out the road was a lot bumpier and I am driving a lot slower than I was 6 months ago. I know I can stay with 2012r2.1. What I am asking is about the possibility of getting some RS bugs fixed while we wait for Xojo to become a productive environment (which it is not for many and you know this if you read these forums regularly).

On the Einhugur grid, that is just a nonsensical statement. RS / Xojo is what changed, not Einhugur. Now, the Einhugur grid might need to have some changes done to it to make it compatible with new version, but given the huge number of bugs that have not been addressed yet, the problem could very well lie with Xojo. Not sure how you can dismiss that as a possibility.

I use the Einhugur grid with XOJO and no problems

The grid itself works fine. But when the page panel shifts to that screen, the 2 StyleGrids immediately draw, while the rest of the screen lags about 1/2 to 3/4 second before drawing all the rest. Another screen does it as well. In RS, smooth as silk, all draws at once instaneously. I need to strip out a project, but just short on time right now.

My point was, despite all the changes from RS to Xojo I as expecting the build process to be the same. That the same compiler could take the same forms and build the same Executable.


Fine, enjoy the new IDE.

I worked in Xojo for a big chunk of my current project but recently moved it back to RB2012 2.1. Mostly because of the screen hog issue and I began experiencing the “getting lost” issue in the navigator now that the project is bigger. But I would be disappointed if they wasted any time on the old RB. That time would be better spent fixing up Xojo into the IDE we all know it can be.

In short, I get what you’re saying, but the solution is to move forward not backward.

It’s not a matter of comfort. Xojo r1 is not usable for large, production projects. The UI and navigation issues force a painful reduction in productivity. (I use the word painful on purpose: my mouse hand hurts after a Xojo session. Other people complain about eye strain using the Navigator for long periods.) The Navigator needs some significant work to be usable. The screen real estate issue needs to be addressed. There needs to be some additional customization options, shortcuts, and ways of doing common tasks. I don’t know if we will see them again, but I also think the Address Bar and Bookmark features need to be restored. Those of us with huge projects made constant use of those tools.

It’s not fundamentally broken. I can tell that the Xojo team put a lot of time into it and that there’s some solid code. But some of the UI decisions are baffling, as is the Navigator paradigm. The Navigator is great for “Hello World!” size projects. It’s a nightmare for large projects. (It also slowed down GUI layout significantly because now the two panels we need, controls and properties, have to fight for the right side of the screen while the Navigator sits useless on the left.)

I don’t expect any RS2012 improvements or releases. I expect them to move forward with the new IDE. But I do have some concern given the difficulty I have using the new IDE. I hope they realize that some of us cannot move forward until some core UI and navigation issues are addressed.

I think what you mean is that you don’t feel it’s usable for your large, production project. And that’s fine. I understand that. I have a large production project that I’ve used with Xojo almost exclusively since mid-February. The only thing I’ve straddled for is to figure out if framework bugs are regressions. I use it on a late 2011 15" MBP, and it does great.

Yeah, the Navigator is not right yet. And it gets in my way a little. And I’d love to see it go 2-column Apple Mail style. But the IDE is still quite usable for me, even on a large project.

Really ?
We manage.
44 top level folders - about 200 MB of source (no images included as that alone is about another 320 mb)
Remember we write the IDE IN the IDE so we know exactly the issues everyone is facing.
Its not perfect - we get that.

And there ARE some projects we know that simply don’t open at all - so those I can easily agree make it “not usable”.

Beyond that it’s not as comfortable as the old IDE - but recall the old IDE has had 7 years of bake time to get to where it is.
I recall how rough it was initially. I stayed using 5.5 for about 2 years after the new IDE came out.
We are working madly on things and we do expect to make updates & changes to improve on the areas we know need work.

It’s been out 10 days :stuck_out_tongue:

[quote=14190:@Norman Palardy]Really ?
We manage.[/quote]
How many months late was the Xojo project?

[quote=14198:@Melvyn Pate]Really?
How many months late was the Xojo project?[/quote]
Because of stuff like needing 4 weeks to rewrite the code editor unexpectedly, for example. Yes, we missed our estimates, but not because of productivity issues.

The project delays had very little to do with the new IDE itself. There was a very long time where we had to use the old IDE because the new one wasn’t ready for production use, then we used both old and new, and then we used Xojo exclusively.

And the productivity issues a large number of us are experiencing have very little to do with the Xojo developers being able to manage a single large project.

Get it?

[quote=14202:@Melvyn Pate]And the productivity issues a large number of us are experiencing have very little to do with the Xojo developers being able to manage a single large project.

Get it?[/quote]
Yes we do. I already said that.
We work in the exact same IDE with the IDE project and Feedback - both are quite large.
And we get that there are issues - trust me. I have the exact same issues you mention.

We’re working on it.
But they can’t happen instantly.