Please Don't Feed The Trolls

Trolls? Where?

As idiosyncratic as it sounds: how can I be sure to ignore them if I don’t know what I should ignore … :wink:

You know them when you see… err, read them. Thankfully, there are very, very few here.

Well, that’s nice.

Endangered species then … :wink:

BE GONE YOU TROLLS!!

Trolls are fun. While I don’t need to comment on their posts I find reading those posts so very funny. They take themselves so terribly serious. Yes, Xojo is buggy, yes, Xojo is lagging behind. But as long as it let’s me mostly do my work I’m okay.

[quote=95531:@Mike Cotrone]
BE GONE YOU TROLLS!![/quote]

Funny group photo of our trolls,
and I still have none of them identified via their avatar :slight_smile:

Congrats Mike. I’m assuming their good looks come from your wife? Well they do seem to have your nose.
I also like your answer to the diaper problem.

It would be great if we could mostly pay the subscription fees.

The reason you don’t see them here is because Xojo does their best to delete most of the posts that aren’t very positive.

[quote][/quote]

Everyone you may think are trolls may not actually be trolls. Some may just be extremely frustrated and disappointed current and previous customers waiting for Xojo to focus on fixing many of the long standing bugs and getting the IDE to a point where increase productivity instead of making development more difficult. I would love to use the product again. But I refuse to reward them by renewing my subscription and ignoring the issues it has until they get their act together. The ones here that minimize the issues or ignore them all together are doing the community a great disservice. The are passively allowing the poor quality releases to continue and for the value of our subscriptions to be deminished. So if I am a troll for pointing out issues and wanting Xojo to do better, than I wear that title proudly.

Until the product gets more solid and, more importantly, until they time they took from my last subscription due to the new IDE transition is deducted from any new subscription, they won’t see another dime from me. And yes, I have contacted customer service serveral times. A 20% (1/5) discount is just not acceptable.

Some of you that choose to blindly drink the Xojo Kool Aid will think that there aren’t a lot of people out there that feel the same way as I do. I would bet you would be wrong. We are the silent majority that read the forums but rarely, if ever, post. We are the ones that want to renew but won’t until the product gets more solid and some of the bugs we care about are fixed and released. We aren’t haters. We just want value for the subscription fees we pay. We don’t want to be left in the cold because a new IDE was being developed. We are tired of new functionality being released way before it is ready. And we are REALLY frustrated with regression bugs in almost every release. We are not your QA team. We are current and previous customers waiting for RB/RS/Xojo to become the product that it can be. I know, we may be waiting forever.

I’m sure this post will probably get deleted and this account suspended, but I don’t care. Those who really need to see it probably will.

Troll

By the way, I’m no newbie. I had been using the product for almost 10 years.

1 Like

I know many people that have posted less than perfect posts about Xojo and as long as it is fair, they havent been removed. I know mine hasnt.

dont know about the first part but the second part I really dont think so. most people that have had their accounts removed was by themselves not Xojo.

We rarely delete posts. In the year this forum has been up, I have deleted 2 user posts that I can recall. And those were deleted because they were offensive to others in the forum, not to Xojo. I’ve deleted plenty of duplicate posts caused by forum glitches, though!

No, it won’t get deleted nor will you get suspended. Few accounts are suspended. I’ve only suspended 1 myself and that was because the user requested it.

[quote=95714:@scott boss]I know many people that have posted less than perfect posts about Xojo and as long as it is fair, they havent been removed. I know mine hasnt.

[/quote]
Consider this to be a big AMEN from the congregation to that, Scott! Reference a few conversations recently about plugins, “when is iOS coming”, the “64-bit conundrum” (one of Norm’s favorites), etc. that certainly fit the description of containing a bunch of “less than perfect” posts … yet even those conversations ended up going on ad nauseum and only getting “locked” (not deleted and still visible) if they got overly personal or totally out of control and off-point. The only posts that I’ve seen deleted are those that delve into matters of a legal nature (NDA-related, etc.).

I’m no “XOJO Homer” but frankly, one of the things that impresses me most about the XOJO team is their objectivity and willingness to listen to everything that’s out there … “the good, the bad, and the ugly”. Do they act on everything? Nope, and couldn’t if they tried. Do they prioritize and act on a lot of things that keep the improvements moving constantly forward? Yep … and that’s why I renewed my Pro subscription back in April. I’m betting on the fact that XOJO will keep moving forward at the most expeditious pace they can with the things their customers want the most … heck, they know the basics of attaining business longevity and their Mommas didn’t raise no fools!

I have been online since 1982. And seen a lot of Nordic fantasy creatures haunt public forums. Most of the time, they come hungry for confrontation, and thrive on anonymity and personal attacks. Unfortunately, these unbalanced individuals usually choose easy targets for their rants, such as some specific forums like comp.sys.mac.advocacy where they overflow any attempt at serious discussion with a tsunami of spuke. So goes the world in the cuckoo’s nest.

Individuals who feel the need to constantly attack Xojo in public forums may not be defined as trolls as probably more misguided than anything. Most of the individuals who post here come because they have chosen Xojo-RB-RS for quite while, enjoy it with all its idiosyncrasies as well as qualities, and seek company from other users, or come for specific programming advice. I have not observed that voicing justified issues about Xojo is intrinsically taboo. On the contrary, this forum is full of contributions about bugs, and sometimes harsh criticisms about unresolved problems. Not to mention frustration about the forever and ever waited for iOS product.

I can understand that a bitter, frustrated customer voices his personal feelings about the new UI in Xojo as compared to RS. This is psychologically explainable. But in the end, it does not advance the discussion. Especially when apparently the issue is of requests to be compensated for a not liked new IDE. The public is not in this theater to see Xojo personnel being put to the question. The assistance is here to talk about its favorite tool. Even if probably everybody has his favorite inconvenience and personal frustrations, this did not justify walking out to some C compiler or other spectacular move. On the contrary, the same as what makes us like a person is sometimes his or her defects, some Xojo little bad sides can become endearing. And discussing workarounds can be enjoyable as well.

I really understand that a still aficionado can be frustrated by Xojo enough to seek grass on the other side of the fence, but still feel attached enough to it to still frequent this forum. But frankly, I feel annoyed that their competence gets overshadowed by their need to constantly complain. I am sure they have much more to share than frustration. They could probably bring a much more positive contribution, would they decide instead to share their discoveries, or what they no doubt know about RB-RS-Xojo.

You totally missed my point on this one. I should have explained it in more detail. My point was not that I do not like the new IDE, which is true but not my point. My point was that I missed out on a very important release because Xojo decided to forego putting out new releases in order to work on the new Xojo IDE/Release. If you remember, there was quite an uproar. Finally, they decided to make another REALStudio releasem but by that time, my subscription had expired. On more than one occasion, I brought this to the attention of Customer Service. I basically said that I want to renew, but given the circumstances, and on principle alone, I would not pay full price. Since I missed what should have been 2 released (if they kept their 1 release every 90 days assertion) I would have received 2 more released. Therefore 2 of 4 = 50%. I wasn’t asking for 50% off but the 20% that was offered was not enough.

It was not you who deleted my posts and suspended my accounts. And yes, I meant to say accounts because I had more than I suspended and more than one post deleted. What I said in those posts was not unusually negative but obviously it was something Jason P. did not want seen. He is the one that deleted my posts and suspended my accounts.

If you have access to the list of accounts that have been suspended and the activity on those suspended accounts, you may be surprised what little it takes to get posts deleted and accounts suspended.

[quote][/quote]

And for those of you that have access to the web/forum logs, yes, I am using another anonymous account to post this message. I have to use temp accounts because I never know when it will get suspended. And no, my name is not Robert Sanders either. I won’t rehash the long discussion that was had about anonymity. Let it suffice to say I come down on the side that wishes to have more control of my personal identity/information than this forum provides.

Well Robert one this we do suspected people for is deliberately spoofing their real name.
Participation on the forums is by invitation and the invite does say “use your real name”.
This isn’t a “public property” in the sense of say a public park.
These are our forums, it is our property and we can, and do, make certain requirements of people to use them.
If you want to participate please use your real name.
If you don’t want to do that then don’t participate.
That rule has been clear from day 1.

Continuing to circumvent and disregard those does get you suspended.
You’re welcome

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Any public gathering has its rules to insure civil exchange. In the case of this forum, rules are set by the owner, Xojo Inc. And the rule is that an individual is expected to appear under his real name. Now, even in real life people may use a name which is different from their birth name, and it usually is not an issue as long as this used name is held with respect for the community.

In effect, a handle worn with honor is just as valid to me as a birth name. Just don’t abuse the system, and be consistent in your use of a given handle, so other members who grace you with their own real name feel they are dealing with a recognizable individual worthy of their respect.

I have issues with uncontrolled anonymity which leads to aggressive and unacceptable conduct in public forums, as can be witnessed all too often on Usenet or Stack Overflow. Interestingly enough, when earlier I voiced my concern about anonymity, I had to endure the same pack behavior and personal attacks from people who stayed in the shadows as can be seen in the worst corners of the Internet. I find that cowardly and low life. I still resent attacks against me from anonymous posts as unfair. Anybody who has been the victim of street corner violence probably feels the same, as attackers run out anonymously after their forfeit.

In the end, I do not mind if you call yourself John Dow or Bob Sanders. As a matter of fact, I cannot verify any name as genuine or not. As long as you behave as a respectable and consistent member of this assembly, and do not use a devious changing identity to mistreat other members and get away with it under a cloak, it is fine with me. On the Internet, any information we volunteer becomes public, and I could perfectly understand that if for instance Peter Norton decided to participate in this forum, he would use a handle. As long as he did not use that to abuse others.

Who’s Peter Norton?

And no, whoever he is, he shouldn’t be getting an “Extrawurst” … :wink:

The guy who wrote the original Norton Antivirus and Norton Utilities, then sold his name and company to Symantec. True, that was a while ago. Let us imagine Bill Gates wanted, for some reason I could not fathem, participate in this forum. Chances are nobody would believe it is his real name :wink: