So iOS to be released tomorrow and then 64-bit on Tuesday? 
i think that
âin the third quarter of 2014â
xojo postpone the presentation again to 2015âŠ
Normanâs & the other Xojo staff who spend time here is worth way more than a few days earlier for iOS. The little gems of how Xojo staff use the IDE have made me immensely more productive.
Thank you Norman, Joe, Greg et al for your help.
Extremist !!!
(for this case)
I too will do math:
1 = 800
1 is too few, 800 is too manyÂ
There is a good number between these where speed comes until another number where speed start to decrease.
But the problem is not only people. The people is also report on the progress.
Giving a delivery date is not a real problem. The problem lies when you do not gives progress / estinate on delivery date. I do not recall (I think so) if I already told you that. I am OK to read a monthly progress with the first sentence is: Âwe make good progress this month" / âwe falled on a black hole this monthâ and where the remainding of the progress report explain what have been done (more or less; the idea is to inform a bit) and confirm or not the targeted release date.
So, if you are awaiting the tool, you will get as good as possible information of the progress (hey, what is the meaning of a progress bar in our software ?) and let the user understand where WE are (Xojo / its clients).
In this case, no need for ranting / bad feeling and so.
Nota: I will still not use ÂiOS for XojoÂÂ
I nearly forgot: if you follow my point of view, if some user / prospect / whatever curious who ask: ÂWhere are we on the iOS front ?Â, the answer will be: read: ÂiOS for Xojo Progress conversation. No more that infamous Âit will be released when it will be readyÂÂ
[quote=75163:@Emile Schwarz] I will still not use ÂiOS for XojoÂÂ
[/quote]
I think we understand that, by now. You may not need to repeat yourself anymore 
Whatâs your problem with that anyway ? Has anybody hurt you with iOS in some fashion ? Or is it religious ?
[quote=75161:@Wayne Golding]Normanâs & the other Xojo staff who spend time here is worth way more than a few days earlier for iOS. The little gems of how Xojo staff use the IDE have made me immensely more productive.
Thank you Norman, Joe, Greg et al for your help.[/quote]
Wayne is right here.
I can add that going here for NJG et al is, for them, like a cafĂ© pause (cafeine = people who rant *): they need like us a break on everyday work. Then they can continue whatever they were done before the Âpause (which of course is not a pause at all; I use âpauseâ as a metaphor).
- and I do that sometimes (too often for my heart).
Donât forget all bugs fixed on Wednesday 
You doesnât seem to have a sense for economic thinking. Kem was right. I would only improve it to let the devs work 16 hours per day instead of 8, then we would have it in exactly two weeks.
Do you know the going rate for slave-drivers these days? And all these devs work remote, so you have to have a driver per each? And the price of a Cat 'O Nine Tails? Ouch! It gets prohibitively expensive really quick.
A very valid point and true in every way. But why does Geoff not tell this story in a blog post? I am sure many people will be interested to read about it.
The change from RS to Xojo was not without problems, what could be expected. But in my humble opinion in less than one year, our favourite development tool is shining again, not perfect but still bright.
I have no problem with those postpones as long as Xojo inc does their work properly. Some of our users also complain about the lack of 64bit versions despite their applications do what they expect to do and do not crash. As long as Xojo inc is not ready to release the LLVM compiler version, we are also not ready for delivering 64bit versions. In the meantime we have to make sure that our 32bit apps work smoothly. Smooth working appâs are the best public relations over buggy fast released apps which will harm us all.
What I find very important is continued support of Paul Lefevre his recorded webinars. Many times they show me the correct way in doing things in Xojo, where I think by myself how wrong I was doing it the other way.
So to conclude my post; I look also forward to LLVM, Android development support too and IOS. But only when it is ready.
Have a nice day.
Chris
A fact which seems often overlooked by some who want this and that and forget that a development tool is only as good as itâs user. I find it pitiful to read how some blame Xojo for bugs they themselves created.
Xojo is not Microsoft and it is quite fortunate. I was able with Xojo to recompile code created with Real Basic 4.5 back in 2002 without any change, and that is a whole lot more than I could say for Microsoft tools. All out pseudo innovation and disregard for developers investment is the hallmark of bullies I donât care about.
If I do not master Xojo as it is, 64 bits, LLVM and the kitchen sink are pure futility.
A good example is Cocoa. Some of us are happy with it and I am one of them. But how many here still prefer Carbon ?
BTW Google Chrome, which accounts for a respectable share of the browser market, is a vibrant example of 32 bits app.
If you need ios now use xcode
Keep in mind guys that adding engineers is not an Instant process. It takes a new person 6-9 months to get familiar enough with just the IDE code to be productive. The c++ framework has a similar barrier. That on top of the fact that some of what weâre doing simply canât be done in parallel, and sometimes other critical fixes slow us down (like Appleâs sudden removal of QuickTime in December). We all want v1.0 out the door and weâre moving as quickly as we think we can without creating a substandard product. I donât think anyone would like that either.
The fact is, is that the hardest version to ship of any product in version 1.0. Itâs also a fact that they are doing an incredible balancing act by implementing the features most of us will use in version 1.0 versus what fringe users want to use down the road. I sat down with Joe Strout at the conference and showed him our iOS app (written in Xcode) and there was only one thing their internal alpha couldnât handle right now (assuming SQLite support is figured out before shipping). This is very good news.
So while I can be tough on Xojo Inc (sometimes too much) the fact that we saw an app created in Xojo running in the iOS Simulator was very cool. Running it on an actual iPhone and iPad was (@&# brilliant! This means that LLVM and the ARM compiler is at least functional and it can only get better.
Also in talking with Joe Strout it became clear that Apple deprecated a whole bunch of stuff in iOS 7 that caused a delay. Things that were working all of a sudden didnât so that took some work. I want iOS as much as anyone, but I came away from the conference really pumped about iOS.
So Iâm looking at this with the glass is half-full perspective rather than the glass is half-empty.
[quote=75190:@Alexis Colon Lugo]If you need ios now use xcode[/quote] or Delphi
Pretty certain it doesnât use real native controls. That makes for some sucky apps, IMO.
Does it make it worse that after ios 8 apples changing the os up a bit since its had no real changes (just additions) since 2007. Sales in Apple devices have been exponentially decreasing in the business world for the last 2 years as android has begun eating âApple aliveâ, and more businesses are realizing that android is more customizable, less proprietary mumbo-jumbo, the products are cheaper, expandable/expansive, have surpassed speed and visual graphics capabilities shortly after apple released the retina display (2.5 years ago). Xojo should buy out basic4android or vice-versa (at over 30 million users is B4A worth more than Xojo with 80,000 users?) Even microsoft is moving the RT mobile framework to Android because âits far more effiecient and capableâ -Microsoft. Its been a year since I was an apple fan and my ipad sits in a cornerâŠiphone is obsolete⊠moreso than my galaxy tablet and note. It was hard to let go of Apple until I realized how limited apple really made my development choices compared to androids âno limitsâ policy. Plus there are more android users than Apple users to sell my software to. Apple charges for a dev license and a filing fee everytime to the ios store⊠And if your app doesnât make it to the store, they keep your filing fee! Google charges me a 1 time $25 fee to post to the play store, and EVERY application is approved.
From my desktop experience, sales and revenue in the MAS are far better than the Windows market, although the Windows installed base is far, far larger.
Sure, the Android market share is regularly expanding, but for instance the iPad still accounts for 36% of the market. I would call that respectable. The Itunes Store seems far more vivid and prices are more sustained than the Android Play Store. Sorry, but as a developer, I rather put efforts in $10.00 apps than in $1.00 ones. I even saw comments in the play store considering $1.00 expensive !
The price of the license is completely irrelevant for developers who are serious about sales. What is $99 when I make more per day ?
As for EVERY application approved, the result is obvious for a lot of Android apps : bugs, unprofessional software, and altogether an amateurish image. Itâs not good for the whole Android market. No wonder why Apple keeps a much cleaner image : making sure software is up to standards go a long way for a better user experience.
Sure, I would not mind being able to sell for Android on top of iOS. But from a developer point of view, there are a limited number of hours in a day, and given a choice, I prefer a higher priced market and professional tools to work with. I do not want to waste my time in haphazard development environments, and endure cheapo customers.
I rather wait for iOS Xojo and enjoy developing with my favorite language, than dive into dubious ponds where my efforts could sink into unpleasant experiences. Better enjoy a small clean market than a snake oil conundrum.
If all you look at it âunits shippedâ then Android is doing well.
When you look at other metrics Apple is still doing very well - much better than shipped units would suggest.
Direct comparisons are hard to do because Apple is the only vendor that reports sales - everyone else reports shipments.
And you can ship millions and sell hundreds of thousands to stuff the channel and it sounds like youâre doing well until, like MS, you have to write off a few hundred million for all those unsold devices.