Is xojo really going anywhere fast?

Off-Topic
#1

Having trailed real studio just over a year ago I am now revisiting testing the new xojo IDE. Unless I am missing something there does not appear have been any major milestones made. For me it’s still real studio with an Apple Mac looking IDE and a product name change.

Stilll no native 64bit support, no IOS, no LLVM, no SSL/TLS support for standalone web apps etc. Most Linux hosted Virtual Private Servers
are now 64bit (without 32bit libs) which more or less renders Xojo built applications useless for Linux targeted platforms.

I am far from trolling but it kinda feels like Xojo as a RAD tool is falling behind the competition pretty fast. In it’s current offering as a RAD product i feel like I should just be using xcode to target Apple, Visual Studio for windows etc.

Would be interested in the views of others.

#2

Those things take a long time to produce. But what is more annoying than that it Xojo is flooded with bugs and it has pretty much been like that since I started programming in Real Studio in 2012. Since R4, I think, of Real Studio I have been experiencing major bugs but I have experienced them more in my recent experiences with Xojo. I am sure I read an article about how somebody recommends to stay away from Real Studio. Because Real Studio 2011 R2 is the latest reasonabally stable version of RS, not sure if that was exactly what he/she said but it was along those lines.

#3

I can live without LLVM, SSL/TLS, iOS support, and 64-bit support.

I think it would be a lot nicer to have LLVM and 64 bit support but it is not critical to make good apps but it is annoying that this is taking such a long time. I do not write web apps atm and I do not really have plans for that. I do not have the intention to develop for iOS. So I am pretty much happy with Xojo for now apart from the bugs and I would love an LLVM performance boost. Though I would complain that with pricing of Xojo all of the fautures you have mentioned should be implemented and Xojo should be stable. I do wonder how much money the developers of Xojo make? I would think with how popular it is, they would make more than enough. They might actually make more if they decrease the price. That would be nice even if it is just temporarly. I believe this has been done recently, I am sorry to be rude but they should lower it more in my opinion.

#4

I love these conversations. They are always so productive and not at all repetitious and monotonous.

#5

‘Beta Testers’. There is a beta version of Xojo? Oh wow. Xojo is not very polished being ‘out of beta’. What is the buggyness in the beta version like Kem? That is a new question.

#6

Presumably this comes up again and again. Why is that do you think?

#7

I think you missed the marks in that Kem :stuck_out_tongue:

#8

If the lack of these features is that much of a problem for you, why are you trying to make Xojo work for you? You’ve got to choose a toolset based on whether it lets you get your work done quickly/efficiently. If it’s such a bad fit, go over to Embarcadero, drop down $2000 and see if a Pro license of Delphi is better or go over to MS and drop down $6200 for a VS Premium subscription.

Bottom line - pick the right tool for your needs.

#9

I’d hazard a guess that it’s because folks expect that you flip a few switches, pay a few coders a few bucks & boom you have 64 bit, LLVM, iOS and whatever else it is you mentioned.

Its not that simple and I’ll skip all the whys & wherefor’s

#10

So do so.

I am fed up with this constant bickering. If I were a Xojo developer I wouldn’t feel so good about myself just now and I bet they are all trying really hard to get it right and, like every other programmer out there, they fail occasionally.

Just let Xojo get on with it.

#11

Visual Studio Pro is less than $100 and Xcode is free right? - Therefore why would anybody even consider spending those sums of money is beyond my belief.

Just trying to ascertain whereby I am seeing Xojo excel as a true modern cross platform RAD in it’s current offering. :frowning:

#12

Perhaps because others see the potential?

Have the experience to understand what it take to evolve such a product?

Are willing to work with Xojo to improve upon the current state of things?

Think that while not perfect, it has a shorter learning curve, and produces equally impressive results (with the right developer of course), than VSP or Xcode regardless of the price involved?

It has been said many times before… Pick you tool… if you think VSP is a better tool for you…then what does griping about Xojo buy you except the ill will of those of us that believe differently than you?

#13

You all are wasting time on conversations like these… If you feel that Xojo isn’t the right language for you then there are PLENTY others languages out there you can use. I for one love Xojo, the support from their staff, and the software I create using it.

#14 
If you feel that Xojo isn't the right language for you then there are PLENTY others languages out there you can use

?? I don’t believe that I stated that.

More than willing to take a Punt with Xojo I was just curious. Appears that for a few years now things have been “on the horizon”. The horizon can be a long way off depending on where you happen to be standing.

#15

Although modern human beings tend to have a problem with “both/and” communication structures, geeks seem to have even a worse time of it. =)

I agree with the OP, Xojo has not got as far as I’d like. I think they are quite a bit behind the curve. I’m not a “lotsa bugs” guy; I hardly see any, but I want better performance - graphical and threaded (I’m not going to repeat what’s already been established), plus modern Windows support. And 64-bit support.

I’m also not the type of guy that feels compelled to “observe” Xojo Corp. and somehow “understand” why these things don’t exist. That’s their issue, not mine. I’m just a customer, and if Xojo doesn’t have these things, they don’t, and I’m not going to complain. I’m a user, not a reviewer.

Bierly is right - “pick the right tool for your needs”. For me, the developers I work for have had better looking Win apps and 64-bit support for some time now. Because they use XCode and Visual Studio - and BTW both are free tools. (I have no idea why these multi-thousand dollar figures were mentioned.)

Back to “both/and” - none of this doesn’t mean I don’t like REAL/Xojo; in fact, I adore it. I try not to take any of it for granted. It does so many things on it’s elegant IDE and tools which subset very well the core API’s of the OS’s it supports.

But what it does mean is that as of tomorrow (that is, next year) I’m going to stop putting my eggs in Xojo’s basket and start working on XCode and VS versions of my products. I’ll still keep up with Xojo and work on that - seriously - until I can flip the switch. Perhaps Xojo will race ahead in 2014. If so, I’ll be pleasantly surprised.

I just feel it’s time to stop thinking that Xojo take me the full distance to the pro apps that I’D LIKE to see my company generate. Xojo makes pro-level apps NOW, and I like it, but I want more.

We don’t have to talk about this as being a competition or Xojo vs. The World. It’s not anti-Xojo either. And none of it invalidates Xojo Corp’s efforts. It’s a great product. But I do think it’s unarguable that Xojo isn’t leading edge.

#16

Thanks for your honest opinion Garth.

Don’t get me wrong I do like the product. Just treading carefully before committing anything financially and doing my homework.

The website claims Xojo has Over 80,000 users worldwide. I would feel more comfortable knowing that is actually 80,000 licensed users as opposed to 1,000 licensed users and 79,000 unlicensed IDE users.

#17

Dont commit a cent - use it for free & save projects using the binary format & run them to your hearts content.
And when/if you’re happy with the result THEN buy a build license for what you need.
That’s the whole point of the licensing changes we made - try before you buy.

#18

[quote]Dont commit a cent - use it for free & save projects using the binary format & run them to your hearts content.
And when/if you’re happy with the result THEN buy a build license for what you need.
That’s the whole point of the licensing changes we made - try before you buy.[/quote]

That is part of the problem in some respect. Xojo requires a license prior to build. If developing client/server based TCP applications how useful is the remote debugger and practical enough to simulate everyday real world networking scenario’s such as disconnected TCP sessions, failed file transfers etc.

#19

As long as you think in terms of “I have to do this all from ONE copy” it will be a problem.
Dont. Run as many copies as you need. It’s free to do so.
Run a copy on the “server” and one on the “client” end disconnect the network between them & have at it.

#20

I for one am totally grateful for your try-out philosophy, Norman. Throughout the years of working on a Mac – which turn out to be more than 20 now –, I was looking for a development system I could understand – never really took the grasp on Objective C. So from time to time I downloaded the actual version of Real Basic but, being interrupted by work or life in general, never got enough into it before the try-out period ended.
With Xojo this was different, and that’s why I finally bought a license.

I know my POV cannot stand for all here – I am not a professional developer, although it seems my first Xojo project could end up on sale some time. So for now I do not miss 64 bit support, iOS compatibility and the like. I surely hope Xojo will grow up to them in the closer future, and in order to achieve this I hope my fee will help.

If they won’t succeed I will not consider the invested money and time wasted. Only known alternative for me, besides FileMaker which is clearly very specialized, would be Xcode. In the worst case, Xojo could be a bridge to it, as learning C syntax and objective programming at once turned out to be a cliff much too steep for me. In the best case, Xojo will grow with my demands. (Yes, I know this is completely irrelevant for the pros of you already in need of more advanced technologies. Don’t mean to intimidate you – just my two cents.)

Anyway: Let’s see what the next year will bring. Not only with regards to Xojo.