How to make Xojo better?

I just had a look at some of the examples included with Xojo. What would make them MUCH more useful in my opinion is the inclusion of a note explaining how the example is structured and why this solution was chosen over other solutions (benefits and disadvantages?). Instead users (especially beginners) are left to figure out HOW it works but still won’t have a clue as to WHY this solution was chosen.

Best would be an accompanying book “Xojo Book 5 - Code examples”.

I got the idea after reading an old website about sockets: http://ljensen.com/rb/sockets_readme.htm#intro

Now THAT’S how documentation should be written.

Btw that’s also the the main problem of MBS - all that power but accessibility is poor.

Any other ideas on what can or should be improved?

I am waiting for new webinar video everyday.

the 3 most important things in real estate are “location, location,location”
the 3 most important things in writing code are “comments,comments, comments”

QT has tutorials with there examples, the code examples have comments directing you to the paragraph within the tutorial… great stuff… when they work! a lot are outdated although the last version seemed to have removed a lot of the broken ones
Also the tutorial appears along side the code
Someone doing such a thing would need to be committed to keeping things up to date

[quote=184397:@Dave S]the 3 most important things in real estate are “location, location,location”
the 3 most important things in writing code are “comments,comments, comments”[/quote]

As verbose as my posts sometimes are, I have to confess my present code is often rather frugal in comments.

Maybe that is the reason why the ReadMe file of the coming RubberViewsWE has 6655 words :wink:

I think that would fall to Paul Levebre … unless Xojo pays me :wink:

[quote=184410:@Michel Bujardet]As verbose as my posts sometimes are, I have to confess my present code is often rather frugal in comments.

Maybe that is the reason why the ReadMe file of the coming RubberViewsWE has 6655 words ;)[/quote]
I start off commenting quite a lot then it goes by the way side
Then it’ll only get commented if I need to share the code with someone else or if I get totally confused by what I’ve already done

Whenever I ask myself “what the heck is this stuff doing here” then I add some code. Christian’s examples are a very good case for adding comments. The code is sometimes so confusing.

A note in each of the example sounds reasonable to me.

User Guide book 4 does have descriptions of the structure of Eddie’s Electronics and Sliders.

I’m still considering ways to better document the examples. This a sample of one thing I tried for the new docs:

http://developer.xojo.com/sqlitedatabase-example-projects

I’m also looking into ways to make the example searchable. Right now there are almost 300 examples and it can be hard to find something if you don’t already know what you are looking for.

I’ve never heard of this guy, but I’ll see what I can do. :slight_smile:

Uhh - French.

My big weakness.

I can write ANY French word in Pow( FrenchWord.length, 3 ) different ways … :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

… none of them correct though …

Paul has done an excellent job with documentation and example projects.

It seems not that long ago where the documentation didn’t make sense and many example projects didn’t even compile. While it could be even better it has come lightyears in recent years.

Anybody who tried to make sense of Microsoft Msdn example code is bound to find current Xojo documentation pure literary delight.

While the documentation and examples are certainly MUCH better than they were (it’s been a while that examples crash on me) I would still not say they are excellent - there is still a lot of room for improvement (and I’m well aware that Paul is only one person and that writing documentation is a tedious and often thankless job).

The Xojo ebooks are too superficial; for example I read up on networking and found the information very lightweight, certainly not going deep enough for what I’m trying to understand. The article I linked to (seems by a former Realbasic engineer?) contained a LOT of information about how the Socket classes work and caveats to look out for that should have been in the documentation.

However with the article being from 2003 I’m not even sure which bits are still correct and which ones are obsolete.

Did you noticed how old some examples are ?

No, I do not talk about their creation/Modification/Last Read dates, but how they are internally.

SOME OF THEM ARE OLD, some of them are useless or have a strange working (drag a Label to Disk do not gives you the text from the label, for example).

This is my opinion: you need a solid background if you want to program. Unlike what Apple does (so long ago) with AppleSoft BASIC (you can use it with the introduction book, then buy the Reference Manual and go further), there is no programming learning path with Xojo.

Of course, if you are at school and have a Teacher to learn from how to program, Xojo is a solution. But… who’s not a solution in that case ?

So, if you want to make Xojo better (make Xojo your way) you have two solutions: buy it or build your own, your better one. ;-:slight_smile:

Note that I like many things Marcus wrote in this conversation.

Paul:

when I feel a project / example I wrote for me have some importance (in coding point of view), I add a note (textclipping, txt, rtf, rtfd) AND a screen shot of the main window (or of the important part), so I do not have to load the project to know what’s in it (and waste less time to decide what to do with it if I have to do something with it).

For other kinds of items in an OS X hard disk, we have QuickkLook to get an eye on it. We do not have that with Xojo (excepted if we print the project with window rendering in a PDF file).

OK: to make the whole thing a bit faster than what I wrote above: a note and one screen shot (the main window OR the visual interface most important part (not the code) in the example Project folder (one example = one folder) is good enough for me.

At last, making current a project is a must have. There are many years (2, more ?) that I do not use Font, but I recall feeling “ad nauseam” with the very same example that never fit my needs: the very same example we have today. My needs at the time ? doing subclass (MenuItem ? MenuBar ? I do not recall) and put code in it to be able to deals with fonts. Sorry, I completely (an oldster problem) forgot what the whole heck it was.

Did I told you about AppleScript / AppleEvents ? There was a one page trivia on the subject.

How do you create a custom control ? If you do not know how to do that in another progammation environment, skip this street, nothing to do for you there. And so on.

This is probably not a one person job. A student job. A different student each quarter can build a brand new (and far better) user experience. After all, if the student quarterly project is enough documented the result can be of great use / quality / reputation for both the student and Xojo.

Giving a Xojo ccreation and project run (into the IDE) for free as the first step (and not an upgrade to the competitors). Now the next step is to provide documentation that pushes Joe (or Jane) Newbie far ahead of the ones that does not uses Xojo !

How about a competition for examples?

Seems a good time for it, especially given the new framework …

Everyone can submit one entry which is judged on both code and documentation by their peers :wink:

P.S. Why am I the only one coming up with ideas in this thread?

[quote=184585:@Markus Winter]How about a competition for examples?

Seems a good time for it, especially given the new framework …

Everyone can submit one entry which is judged on both code and documentation by their peers :wink:

P.S. Why am I the only one coming up with ideas in this thread?[/quote]

Markus, if you wonder why you are the only one coming with ideas, you should seriously ask yourself : “are they good ideas” ?

Do you really expect many people to subject themselves to tar and feathers over their coding style and documentation?

Yeah. Go on scaring the few people who submit examples… Very good idea indeed …

Too much free time… How about updating the examples, send them back to Paul, ???, profit… Much easier than coming up with a contest :wink:

Markus,

some of us shared code and examples, real examples here in the past.

Some can follow your call and try to give us new (different) examples that others can improve with their positive comments and additions.