GroupBox font issue

What happened to the font attributes for the GroupBox in version 2014R1?

yeah… thats not good… I use that all the time

Look in the “Advanced” tab/button at the top of the inspector. It’s the gear.

seriously? the IDE is cumbersome and now they have to hide things?

FYI… seems to be that way for ALL controls not just groupbox

remove that stupid (yes stupid) huge LOCK control image… and there would be plenty of “room”
or put THAT on the advanced page…

Thanks for the help. With every release the IDE becomes more complex, requiring many extra steps to do the simplest things. Not very user friendly.

Amen, Dave and Robin. My sentiments exactly. Each release seems to take a step backward in the user friendliness department.

It worked just fine for me the way it was.

We feel like most people rarely change the fonts for controls. Rather than clutter up the default list of Properties in the Inspector, we are moving infrequently-used properties to the Advanced pane. The benefit is that you can find the properties you DO use frequently more easily.

Geoff - could you guys maybe change the icon to say “Adv” or “ADV” (same font as the ID icon) to make it more obvious where the “Advanced tab” is? I think most people think of the gear icon as standing for settings.

Would perhaps the fact that the only comments on this change so far are NEGATIVE, change your feelings?
I for example change the font 10x more often than I change the LOCK property… (and that lock control is still hideous)

We use icons in those tabs (despite the ID tab). We looked around for an example of an icon that means “Advanced” but it’s really not even that. It’s “less frequently used” properties.

Well, if those hideous and wasteful on/off buttons were replaced with checkboxes and space used a bit better then nothing would need to be hidden.

[quote=70848:@Dave S]Would perhaps the fact that the only comments on this change so far are NEGATIVE, change your feelings?
I for example change the font 10x more often than I change the LOCK property… (and that lock control is still hideous)[/quote]
I have no doubt there are people who use fonts a lot but I think they are the minority. Locking is used a LOT, certainly far more (overall) than fonts.

I think Markus has a good point. Lots of valuable real estate is used with those buttons.

I would rather have simple and efficient over pretty.

Geoff… no offsense… but I see two words in your statements that give me pause. “FEEL” and “THINK”… meaning you don’t “KNOW” how your customers use your product in regards to this item.

Despite what you might think, the on/off buttons consume no more room than checkboxes would. Try this: create some checkboxes and set the font (irony noted) to SmallSystem. Now place three of them at a reasonable vertical distance apart from each other. With the Inspector open, take a screenshot so you can edit the screenshot in your favorite editor positioning three of the on/off buttons next to your three checkboxes. What I found was that they take up approximately the same amount of space. I wasn’t trying to do that, it’s just what happened. Could I save a few pixels by cramming the checkboxes really close together? Sure, but it wouldn’t be worth it, IHMO.

Not too sure about that.
In 2012 the Lock controls took up a vertical size of 51 pixels… compares to 150 in Xojo
while the entire property dialog took up 470px vs 1060px … this for the simple checkbox.
This is almost 3x more screen real-estate for the exact same properties… and while some of us have huge multi-monitor systems, many do not.

Yes, the “listbox” approach in RB worked so well.

Geoff: the IDE is a tool, not a beauty contest contender. More Visual Studio and less XCode would be great - I prefer Objective C over VB/C# and Cocoa over .NET a lot, but IDE-wise Visual Studio wins by miles.

We do not run focus groups to determine what changes to make to Xojo. We build the product that we want to use because, like you, we use the product day-in and day-out as well. Of course we consider user feedback seriously. It is rare (though it certainly happens) that a change we make doesn’t work for the majority of users. But when that happens, it comes up during the beta cycle.

We made this change quite early in the beta process and I don’t think we received a single negative comment about it.

Yeah, I can’t remember the last time I changed the font aside from making it SmallSystem. More often setting bold, rarely italic. Not a big deal.