Do we still need iOS 7 support?

I’ve noticed that several of the iOS apps that I use have recently been updated with a release note to the effect that iOS 8 is now the minimum supported version. Given that Xojo’s support for iOS 7 is sometimes given as a reason for why a certain feature can’t be implemented (ie “until we drop support for iOS 7”) and given that iOS 9 is getting close and iOS 8 adoption rates are at very high levels, do we still need iOS 7 support in Xojo?

You’ll get some disagreement around here but not from me, hence the reason for my post the other day https://forum.xojo.com/24384-85-of-ios-devices-now-on-ios-8

Things have changed since the old desktop-only days and I believe Xojo should keep iOS lean and mean and cruft-free.

I don’t think the minimum will go up until Norman gets a new phone.

Some features you can do via declares - just check to make sure you are on 8.0 before you do.

From what I have seen on here about XOJO iOS … its not “Some features you can do via declare” but rather “Most features require you to use declares”

[quote=203491:@Phillip Zedalis]I don’t think the minimum will go up until Norman gets a new phone.

Some features you can do via declares - just check to make sure you are on 8.0 before you do.[/quote]

The worst offender apparently due to the antiquated iOS7 is the lack of libraries/plugins which, according to Norman, would otherwise be possible in 8 and 9.

Thats not QUITE what I said

[quote=203140:@Norman Palardy]At least a couple reasons I can think of

  1. we still compile for iOS 7 which doesn’t have any way to support plugins of any kind
  2. plugins cant be loaded on iOS in the same way we load them on OS X, Windows Linux etc so it requires a completely new loading mechanism

I’m sure if joe wasn’t up to his ears in raspberry pi, 64 bit compilers & linkers and linux he might chime in with some others I missed[/quote]

#2 still applies even on iOS 8 and 9

[quote=203491:@Phillip Zedalis]I don’t think the minimum will go up until Norman gets a new phone.

Some features you can do via declares - just check to make sure you are on 8.0 before you do.[/quote]
Heh
Which phone I own has no bearing on what we support
I also have an iPad mini running 8
Need to have lots of different devices running supported versions.
Cant test support if we dont have any devices to test said “support” :slight_smile:
When iOS 7 is no longer supported I may keep my phone, ditch it entirely, or get a new 5 5s or something
A phone is NOT a big deal for me - I rarely use it

You mean a new 6 or 6s, right? :slight_smile:

Sorry, could not resist!

Not necessarily. iOS7 runs very nicely on my iPhone 4, and a new iPhone 5 or 5s would be enough to run iOS8 and iOS9 …

[quote=203503:@David Roe]You mean a new 6 or 6s, right? :slight_smile:

Sorry, could not resist![/quote]
Nope - heck even a 4s would do fine and could probably get one for free :stuck_out_tongue:
Like I said a cell phone is very close to useless for me - total talk talk time since I got this one brand new just under 5 years ago is a matter of hours.

Total talk time on any cell phone type device in my lifetime… 10-15 minutes (maybe)…

I’m actually surprised my cell phone says its in hours
There have been times when we travel and my wife’s is dead she’s used mine
I cant imagine any other way it got that high
My “recent calls” list is almost all telemarketers numbers that I’ve subsequently blocked :slight_smile:

I actually went phoneless for years after having one previously.
That one I used for 30 seconds one month but on the plan it cost me $30 for those 30 seconds.
That decided it and I got rid of it.
This one is darned close to that.

[quote=203501:@Norman Palardy]@Norman Palardy At least a couple reasons I can think of
we still compile for iOS 7 which doesn’t have any way to support plugins of any kind
plugins cant be loaded on iOS in the same way we load them on OS X, Windows Linux etc so it requires a completely new loading mechanism
I’m sure if joe wasn’t up to his ears in raspberry pi, 64 bit compilers & linkers and linux he might chime in with some others I missed

#2 still applies even on iOS 8 and 9[/quote]

The point is, iOS7 makes it entirely impossible, whereas starting iOS8 it could be done.

I may be an incurable optimist, but did not Geoff include iOS in the platforms that will support plugins written in Xojo ?

Not yesterday or in 2015R3, of course :wink:

“Possible” is perhaps too optimistic to describe it. Plausible, as in theoretically possible, might be better.
Still at some future date far enough off that I would not speculate on dates or versions.

We still have to create a brand new way to do it using the mechanisms that exist in iOS 8 and a new format since, as far as I understand the limitations of iOS, we cannot load dylibs like we do on OS X, Windows & Linux. That means plugin authors would have to recreate their plugins using this new format we’d have to debug the whole mess & thats not trivial

The new plugin format for plugins written in Xojo is a completely new thing that is possible at some point in the future that is far enough off we have no set date when it will happen.
And thats about all I can say about it at this point in time.

The premise of the thread is “dump iOS 7 so we can get plugins in iOS 8 etc”
Until we have the infrastructure etc to DO plugins the impetus to not support iOS 7 simply doesn’t exist - there are no plugins with or without iOS 7
We could NOT support iOS 7 very quickly but that doesn’t make plugins for iOS suddenly work
There’ still a lot of work to make that happen and until then why not support iOS 7 ?

[quote=203511:@Norman Palardy]“Possible” is perhaps too optimistic to describe it. Plausible, as in theoretically possible, might be better.
Still at some future date far enough off that I would not speculate on dates or versions.

We still have to create a brand new way to do it using the mechanisms that exist in iOS 8 and a new format since, as far as I understand the limitations of iOS, we cannot load dylibs like we do on OS X, Windows & Linux. That means plugin authors would have to recreate their plugins using this new format we’d have to debug the whole mess & thats not trivial

The new plugin format for plugins written in Xojo is a completely new thing that is possible at some point in the future that is far enough off we have no set date when it will happen.
And thats about all I can say about it at this point in time.[/quote]

Alright. Not before the end of next year…

At least…

Or even later …

No guarantee :wink:

We’ll do some stuff at some date in the future

Lets the 2015 Speculation Games begin !

[quote=203515:@Norman Palardy]We’ll do some stuff at some date in the future

Lets the 2015 Speculation Games begin ![/quote]

To be frank I am not sure I’ll will lose sleep over that. Sales in the iOS App Store are so dismal, I will probably not touch iOS for a while…

I guess iTunes is now the epitome of the paradox of choice. If one does not have a budget of millions in marketing to stand out amongst the million and a half apps, with a shame of a search , hoping for organic growth is a delusion.

Just a wishlist:
iOS will be usable
64bit Desktop
Web will be discontinued
Pi won’t ever launch
Xojo will return to focusing on desktop, and maybe iOS as a side project

[quote=203547:@Tim Parnell]Web will be discontinued
Pi won’t ever launch[/quote]

Hello ?

I don’t know about Pi, though I suspect if Microsoft itself goes there it is a good reason, but WEB ? Given the tremendous work gone into it, including Cloud and soon 64 bit, not sure Santa can give you that one…

It does not mean I do not feel like Desktop could get a lot more attention. Mac and Windows alike. For instance as talked about in a recent thread with RTF support. Or for Windows with .NET framework…

No kidding… I have a retro StarTrek game… sold 18 copies :frowning:
but even worse I have a calculator that (my opinion) rivals PCalc (one of most popular in the iOS Store)… and NOBODY HAS EVER EVEN VIEWED IT and its been over 3 months!