I’ve cleaned up this thread a bit. I’d like to remind all participants to try and remain professional and follow the forum guidelines.
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You could always just stop being rude and just don’t bother with the thread
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Thank you much!
Well it would mean that you would be able to build Mac versions of your app, without a Mac, so how is that not an improvement?
Cause it is not working. We rewrote this app now with Lazarus and gave it out it is only a translation helper so no need for mac or anyhing else but writing it with Lazarus in this case. No Problem. There will come the time xojo can do it. Hopefully.
I’m sure they will, but I fear you’re going to be disappointed if you plan your product around what Xojo will provide in the future.
Your criticisms would find more traction if you’d post some feedback request links. Maybe folks would sign on to them and give them more visibility. At the very least you’d come off as someone making constructive criticism.
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We actually just added a new category for those types of discussions around specific Feedback cases.
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I understand your disappointment. While in this case the fault is not Xojo‘s, as it is indeed LLVM’s job to update the linker, I think it would help to avoid disappointments of this kind if Xojo made it completely clear on their website that for full functionality you have use a Mac. This will possibly never change for iOS because of Apple’s iOS Simulator being macOS only, but should at some point in the future change for the other platforms.
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I haven’t forgotten about anything, the difference is I don’t post 20 times a day on here that Xojo is so terrible and I’m moving to XYZ language etc etc etc whilst ranting continuously.
Instead I raise tickets, read the forums, figure out how to work around the issues, use the feedback ranking system etc etc.
I get it, you have issues with some aspects of Xojo, So either work with them, work with the community to fix them or leave. Any of those are your choices and you have the right to make any or all of them but the constant moaning, ranting, calling it garbage etc etc is not the right way to go about things.
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Might I friendly invite you all to calm down a bit?
IMHO, Thorsten has a right to feel embarrassed. The website doesn’t make clear you need a Mac to build xplatform, and “buy a Mac” is not a good answer for a problem that could be easily avoided.
(BTW, I use a Mac and do not have native xplatform desktop platforms to test. For my purposes a virtualisation is good enough, and under that aspect everything works as promised.)
It cannot be denied that Xojo currently is going through a crisis. What unites us is that we all love the product and do not want to see it go down. That being said: The community plays an enormous big part in past successes. Please don’t divide it any more. I think it is more helpful if we mannerly discuss what issues exist and what solutions could be found. If Thorsten was completely disillusioned, he’d be gone already.
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MacOS cannot be legally virtualized. You therefore need a Mac if you’re going to test a Mac version.
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He does indeed have a right, we all do. It’s not just this post though Ulrich, every other post on this forum for the last month has been his. Moaning. I don’t think Xojo is going through a “crisis”, that’s a bit dramatic. They got the last release out a bit delayed and it’s not as feature complete as we’d all like but I have great faith that Greg O’Lone will sort that out in short order.
As for your last sentence about him leaving, I agree. it’s just that every day he’s posting things in here about having had enough and is leaving. I was just saying if you’re going to do it then do it already and stop all the ranting! 
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I could be wrong here, but I believe that should be qualified to say except on Apple hardware. I believe it is legal to run VM instances of other macOS versions if done on an Apple mac host.
But for the purposes of this thread, that is not relevant anyway…
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Good point.
So that basically boils down to the fact that you need a Mac if you want to develop and test xplatform, right? Because, without a working linker, you cannot even debug remotely on a native test machine – or can you?
macincloud.com have a range of options that would seem to work if you really don’t want to own a Mac. I haven’t used them as I keep a Mac-mini in the corner for testing & building.
FWIW, you could probably get a used or reconditioned Mac mini pretty inexpensively too. When I bought a 2012 Mac Pro three years ago with 64GB of RAM and a 12 core processor, the whole thing cost $800 USD. Apple supported it up through 10.14 with a new video card and I can run 10.15 and 10.16/11 virtually.
The Discussion for me is ended long time ago: at the moment I had to stand that somebody told me in this forum that I should leave and take care that I will not get a hit from the door in my… So: I will not and never buy a MAC. That’s why we have no MAC. It is not a question of money. Anyhow if I buy something it will never be a used device. So: it is not because xojo can not do it it is because xojo wrote that they can. We developed the solution we needed on Mac fastly in freepascal, it is already working and in test so: no Mac needed, solution found. Do not play this games around, it looks like there should be the Order to have MAC. Never Ever.
Yes and no, when I only had a 2011 Mac I couldn’t test my app on Mojave or Catalina but I released a beta version for those Mac users to try.
They were very helpful and ironed out the bugs with Dark Mode etc. It’s the long way round but they seemed to enjoy being part of the development process. After a few months I was confident I could release it to everyone.
Nowdays the old 2011 Mac has a new SSD, boosted Ram and patched for Catalina runs bootcamped Windows 10 and VirtualBox Linux Mint. It’s fast and perfectly adequate for Xojo development.
Because they all access a shared Projects folder I can test the same project file on all three distros without swapping machines.
In fact Windows 10 runs so well on a Mac that I rarely use my Windows Desktop machine.
Graig Grech: yes you are right: it is like you said. And thatś why I am not buying Mac Computers all three years new. Expensive and at the end really slow and MUCH problems. But the Mac user world is an own world. So: I will not buy one as long as MAC has JAVA I will write my Software for Desktop as Java Software or as native software with freepascal. That’s it because it is the only solution to provide my customers fast-shot software to get their things done. Because my Job is defined as the programmer and Supporter for the devices I am developing byself. That’s it. And it is more than complex to rewrite with Web 2.0 and more complex to write for MAC. I don’t knoiw why all are thinking that Software for MAC is only possible with MAC.
And in case of the Linker: xojo is selling the entire package. So they should also take care of the linker byself. That’s always the problem with an open source component: if you are not looking that the component development speed is fast enough you will have problems. But that are not my problems. I am sorry that xojo promised exactly this functionality. That was one fundamental argument for buying xojo. Beside the Web App programming und cgi App generating. Web App is possible with Web 2.0 but not ready, CGI is not available anymore. That’s the clue for me that I have to see what I am doing.