Back after four years - should I update?

General
21

[quote=361523:@Peter Job]I don’t buy that one bit. Microsoft attempted to force this “modern” UI on the world with Windows 8, which turned out an even more despised version than Vista.

I hate these bloated, space-wasting, heavily-animated, heavily-graphical interfaces. They’re just fugly.[/quote]

Peter, you are not a customer. In fact, I bet you probably never bought anything on the Windows Store, and probably got stuck in the past, so indeed, you don’t need to buy any contemporary bit of anything.

Today every PC is sold with Windows 10, and users who started with phones and the web don’t give a caramel what dinosaurs used to do in the Windows 95 era. They appreciate well designed web UI, as well as touch UI on the phone that was their first computer, and of course on Tablet PC where it makes sense to have a well balanced, well spaced and aesthetic interface.

Sorry to tell you that, but current Windows 10 users could not care less about your opinion. And they are the ones with the credit cards.

My business is to sell end user software to present customers, not to dwell on the good ol’times, and pretend it was better before. Even if I saw the birth of both Mac and IBM-PC…

22

[quote=361504:@Julia Truchsess]Thanks, guys.

Peter, I prefer to code on Mac but the ultimate target is Windows.

Dave, I’m sure 2013 will work, but if the IDE has improved significantly while not breaking old code I’d like to enjoy the improvements.

Scott, yes, I may do that but was hoping to get an idea in advance of what to expect, and possible pitfalls, from the community. Like “oh, it’s a million times better now than 2013, go for it” or “meh, it’s the same, all the development has been in web and iOS”, or “I’ve had to rewrite all my old code to work with the latest version of Xojo”. It’s been so long since I’ve used it I’m not sure I’ll know what to look for until having dived in pretty deeply.[/quote]
Hi Julia! I wanted to let you know that we do offer a 90-day money back guarantee, so you can buy during the Black Friday sale if you want to get the discounted price and then you have the option to return if you change your mind.

23

[quote=361544:@Michel Bujardet]Peter, you are not a customer. In fact, I bet you probably never bought anything on the Windows Store, and probably got stuck in the past, so indeed, you don’t need to buy any contemporary bit of anything.

Today every PC is sold with Windows 10, and users who started with phones and the web don’t give a caramel what dinosaurs used to do in the Windows 95 era. They appreciate well designed web UI, as well as touch UI on the phone that was their first computer, and of course on Tablet PC where it makes sense to have a well balanced, well spaced and aesthetic interface.

Sorry to tell you that, but current Windows 10 users could not care less about your opinion. And they are the ones with the credit cards.

My business is to sell end user software to present customers, not to dwell on the good ol’times, and pretend it was better before. Even if I saw the birth of both Mac and IBM-PC…[/quote]

I feel quite hurt, Michel! :wink:

Of course I am a customer, and I sell and support PCs and laptops as part of my business. My customers couldn’t give a flying f@#% for a well designed webby UI - they just want stuff that is familiar and works. The “modern” UI is nice for phones and tablets I suppose, but on your desktop it is not well-balanced, it is incredibly wasteful of space ( so that it looks nice on a teeny-tiny phone screen ), and not what I would call aesthetic.

Most of Windows 10 is perfectly fine, to me, as long as you dump most of those vile “active” tile thingies off your start menu. In fact, I think it is a great version except for one thing - the infernal big updates that give my customers so much trouble ( bandwidth is expensive for many customers here, what with limited fibre rollout and copper cable theft ). That has nothing to do with Win 3.1 or such like.

Oh! I did get one app from the Win app store - a free one - new version of Medieval Cue Splitter. I didn’t realise I could use the store, actually, as I use a local login not a blasted MS login on all my PCs. It was hideous so I junked it.

24

I forgot to add, if your client expects HiDPI support, you might have to move to a newer version.

25

Seems like the biggest breakage is that BitWise now demands a Uint64, whereas previously it accepted Integers. My app controls external hardware and bitwise operations are widespread, so it may be a bit (pun intended) of a pain to fix. Xojo’s friendly (i.e. lax) typing constraints is one of the reasons I’ve preferred it over the horribly draconian Swift. Maybe there are valid arithmetic reasons for the change, but bitwise on plain old integers worked fine for me during 3 years of development back in the day.

26

That’s what the angel on my right shoulder is saying. But the devil on my left shoulder is whispering “Come on, you know you want to try the latest, newest, and shiniest things! Think of all the cool new features to discover! And you love spending money! Go ahead, what could go wrong - Uncle Geoff is always looking out for you!”

27

Peter, no offense, but you remind me of my grand father screaming after the Beatles. And none of that makes us younger.

You may not realize it, but the 14 years old who today discover computing with their phone, enjoy the touch interface and are familiar with the web browsing experience. These kids will be in charge in less than ten years, and guess what ? They will quite naturally go for the clear and clean web-like UI, because that is familiar to them.

Note that I am not saying “modern UI”, because the terrible attempt that was Windows 8 has already gone quite a way, and is bound to evolve. I don’t believe the metaphor of the future is any desktop OS. I may be mistaken, but I believe it is bound to be more web like than anything.

I bet you they will find the desktop metaphor that was so hot in the eighties quite ugly and old fashion.

I know you live in an area where infrastructure has not quite catched up yet, but I will always remember Cameroon when I was living there back in 2004 or so. When I stepped in, cyber-cafés were few an wide apart, I had to go to downtown Yaoundé. When I left two years later, they had four cyber-cafés on the corner next to me. Today they have DSL everywhere, and are already placing fiber in some areas. It took close to 30 years in France.

28

Well, you need to consider Win 8. The great Steve Sinofsky and Steve UsedCarSalesman attempt to have one interface, all devices, that floated like the Titanic is the classic real-world counter to your argument. Methinks, because you program and sell through the Apple and Win stores, that you think the whole universe wants little phone-app programs and interfaces. Furthermore “the web” as you call it is anything and everything. However insulting you try to be ( grandpa! ), the world does not want their desktop OS to be like they are browsing flabby oversized web pages ( being a bit senile yourself, you might remember Win 98’s attempt to show the OS as web ).

Your home is Mac ( I know you use Win too ) - last Mac OS I looked at ( Sierra ) , the finder itself looked nothing like the “web-like UI” you tout. The OS is there to enable productivity, not eye-candy ( if such it is ).

29

Woah.
Stop right there guys.

a/ off topic
b/ uncalled for

30

Kids don’t care about your opinion. Their world will most certainly ressemble more their phone and web UI than antiquated machines of yesteryears. Including Mac :wink:

Now I stop because Jeff Tullin does not like it.

31

BTW, I strongly believe the link I posted to UI basics for Universal Windows Platform (UWP) apps is smack on topic for someone willing to develop contemporary programs for Windows.

32

If you really want to carry on with this, Michel, start an off-topic thread.

33

The app is for in-house use controlling production line test equipment. It will not be sold or distributed to the public and I don’t care about anyone’s opinion regarding its UI design :slight_smile:

34

Says the guy who derailled a perfectly on topic thread with his Microsoft bashing agenda :confused:

I simply posted a link to the Microsoft equivalent of the Apple HIG. This should be common knowledge, like it is in Mac development.

Which you did not share before. Suit yourself. Good luck.

35

[quote=361582:@Michel Bujardet]You may not realize it, but the 14 years old who today discover computing with their phone, enjoy the touch interface and are familiar with the web browsing experience. These kids will be in charge in less than ten years, and guess what ? They will quite naturally go for the clear and clean web-like UI, because that is familiar to them.
[/quote]

You may have a point for consumer/mass market apps… But I don’t think that will nearly as true for non customer facing business/technical desktop apps…

IMO a UI meant for both desktop and mobile will never be the most efficient for desktop… and in business that matters a lot (though it still should look good).

  • Karen
36

@Michel Bujardet , @Peter Job - please take your discussion elsewhere.

37

You should have no problem using integer instead of Uint64 as long integer are in reality unsigned (positive) values

38

Living in ignorance is bliss. This was Windows 8.x. A while ago. Signing off this stuffy thread. Be all content in your prejudice.

39

That depends… Integer is Int32 in a 32bit build, but is Int64 in a 64bit bulld… so you DO need to be aware, especially when passing to Declares

[quote]Bitwise
Module

Performs bitwise operations on integers. The BitWise class supports operations on 64-bit integers. However, you can still pass 32-bit integers and work with the result as a 32-bit integer.[/quote]

40

It depends on what you will have to do later. Is this a one off re-compile and a simple single change and you’ll never have to revisit this code ever again? If so then just rebuild it in 2013 and be done with it. If you’re going to have to maintain this going forward, or have any other work that will be done in Xojo then you really need to put in the time to update and bring your code inline with the new changes. There aren’t that many and most that I can think of have already been mentioned in this thread.

If you have to do this more than once, then it’s worth it. Otherwise not.