ARM based macOS: Is Xojo/LLVM ready?

More and more rumors reporting a shift from intel to Apple ARM Processors for Macs are popping up. (EN) (DE) (DE)

Can Xojo Inc. give a Statement about Xojo beeing ready for such a shift in time? Or is it to soon to say something about it?

Thank you.

No they can’t.
However, IF it happens, and IF they don’t have a solution, they don’t have a business.
I trust them to have a solution, even if it takes a while.

If there is a delay, I simply wont be selling for ARM based Macs for a while.
I can live with that: there will be plenty of Intel machines around for the next 10 years.
In fact I would be surprised if there wasnt some intel emulation for a while… Apple do some bonkers things but releasing a Mac where 90% of the legacy apps dont work , sounds risky even for them. :slight_smile:

…and, what ARM based chip are-they using in the iPhone ? Isn’t it the one Xojo already support ?

Don’t know. That’s why i’m asking :wink:

I think that Apple has a solution.
Maybe a lot of us has known the migration between PPC into x86, and 32bits Apps running on 64bits macOS… :wink:

[quote=425788:@Sascha S]@Emile Schwarz …and, what ARM based chip are-they using in the iPhone ? Isn’t it the one Xojo already support ?
Don’t know. That’s why i’m asking ;)[/quote]
It’s Apple’s own chips which they are planning to use. It is rumored a newly developed A14 CPU should be the core.

In theory, Xojo’s use of the LLVM compiler architecture should make a transition easy:

I’d say a fast translation is rather a question of the compiler engineer. The ecosystem is set up for a multitude of CPUs.

And since the Xojo IDE is build with Xojo, getting a Xojo IDE running in ARM is… easy.

Of course, all of this is theory.

We will know when (IF) ARM Macintosh comes to light…

Apple points ARM until the end of 2020 and Universal Apps by 2021 (runs anywhere, iPhones, iPads, Macs…).

Beware, Bloomberg in the past… Do you remember the “server hardware gate” ?

I could keep posting other sources… :smiley:,38668.html

Marzipan and Kalamata are known projects already, only precise dates are lacking.

Not saying it’s false, but these sites are all echoing each other.
Juicy gossip is the fuel of the internet.

As previously noted, Apple has transitioned the Mac platform to new CPU architectures multiple times in the past (including from PowerPC CPU’s to Intel CPU’s–based on entirely different architectures). In every case, Apple made the transition seamless by including new OS features that seamlessly ran software created for the old architecture.

Most apps written for the old architecture ran fine (the exceptions tended to be low-level drivers or other things of that nature).

Eventually, about 5 years (and major OS updates) later, they remove the compatibility.

Every time they make a change like this, developers and end-users scream that the sky is falling and the world will end the day it happens. Every time, it’s been a relatively painless transition spanning years. Yes, a fraction of developers and users won’t have a painless/seamless transition because of the nature of their apps (usually doing stuff related to external hardware), but even they will eventually find solutions.

Nothing to see here yet. Probably little to see here ever, unless they screw this up despite getting it right multiple times before.


The problem this time is that a large number of Mac users also use Windows and Linux code via virtual machines or bootcamp. Right now I can do all my work from one quad core MacBook Pro. I assign my VMs two cores and they perform like I’m on real machines.

I don’t see how Apple could maintain that level of performance absent an emulation miracle. Not unless they’re planning on putting 32 ARM cores in the thing and dedicating half or more to x86 emulation. Even then compatibility becomes a question, and some development tasks have to be done on real x86 machines regardless of performance.

I’ve never liked this rumor. The only possible advantage…aside from penny pinching…is security. Apple can control their ARM cores, and there have been exploits of Intel’s hardware. (Though in fairness the side channel exploits can be applied to any processor architecture with caching. The big concern has been with Intel’s management hardware, but I’m not aware of an actual exploit of that.)

I honestly hope this is a fake rumor. I like having one machine that can do everything and do it well.

I can understand ARM maybe for low end Macs but like last man said then VM’s and Bootcamp…for me then loosing those I would just leave the Mac without even giving it much thought.

I’ll step in here with a bit of non-SBC info - there are ARM processors available now that are NOT aimed at SBC/portable use. They offer full server-level performance. A good example of where this is today is from the manufacturer Gigabyte:

R181-T92 64 core ARM server

Xojo (REALbasic at the time) made the transition along with Apple in 2005 from PowerPC to Intel (Xojo has been around for > 20 years). That was before they were using LLVM. I have every faith that they would transition again if required.

@Gary and other readers:

iPhone use an ARM processor.
Xojo build appications for iPhone today.
Xojo is build with Xojo.

Conclusion: Xojo (the IDE) can be build to run on ARM…

And, this rumor runs since… the dark ages…

Because LLVM will support the new Arm chips, Xojo will have relatively few problems migrating. The problem will be those of us who run Windows applications on their Macs. I do that a lot and sincerely hope Apple will continue to offer intel-based MacBook Pros. The current 2018 i9 Macbook Pro is the best computer I have ever used. It does everything well.