Such as?
Which one?
They are just giving customers what they want. Just look at Win32. The .NET framework has been out for 10+ years, but Xojo still uses Win32, because it is MUCH more economically feasible to do so, than to do a totally rewrite.
Which is also why I can’t do anything worth while on Windows. I like to have nested containers and no matter what I do they draw and glitch like crazy. You can add double buffer and what-not to fix it on one container deep but it falls apart quickly after that.
Yep, that is a problem, but to be fair, ever since I started using Xojo, I have noticed just how many other programs out there also flicker. Really didn’t notice it too much before I started using Xojo / Mac. I’ve got most the flickering dealt with, except for when resizing a window or layers controls / containers as you mentioned. At some point I just started avoiding those situations as best as possible.
[quote=128643:@Christoph De Vocht]@Michel Bujardet The latest one is the 32 bits code that does not work in Yosemite
Such as?
@Sam Rowlands Unfortunately due to changes in Yosemite (such as at least one framework appearing to be 64-Bit only)
Which one?[/quote]
Christoph, you should have followed several posts Sam made in other threads about calls to the framework that no longer work in 32 bits in Yosemite. I cannot locate them at this moment. This was confirmed by Christian Schmitz.
Oliver Osswald also discovered NSSearchField seems to be affected.
I am sure more will be discovered as time passes.
When in Rome… Maybe people who are mainly developing with Windows do not nest containers, but use other techniques…
The real question of why make a Windows version of the program should not be so much if it is enjoyable, but if it is profitable. Xojo cross platform abilities are impressive, but developing on Mac for Windows is, IMHO, not valid for serious project. There are too many very real graphic differences and peculiarities that require seeing the program run on Windows. Flickering is just one of these many differences, and that may simply require another approach.
That said, if Xojo won’t do, there are other tools available if needed.
Is it not possible to use declares to tap into .Net ?
Pardon ?
Who told you it doesn’t work ?
We still use it because until Vista became the baseline anything else would require installing .Net
Now it’s preinstalled on all the versions of Windows we support.
So at some point I’d expect a new Xojo framework for .Net
Down the road once we get a lot of the huge changes we’re already making shipping.
[quote=128664:@Michel Bujardet]Christoph, you should have followed several posts Sam made in other threads about calls to the framework that no longer work in 32 bits in Yosemite. I cannot locate them at this moment. This was confirmed by Christian Schmitz.
[/quote]
There’s a difference between “existing code breaks” and “new functionality is not available in 32 bit versions”.
Apple is definitely doing the latter - not the former.
[quote=128674:@Norman Palardy]
There’s a difference between “existing code breaks” and “new functionality is not available in 32 bit versions”.
Apple is definitely doing the latter - not the former.[/quote]
Yes, thats what I thought too. All my apps works perfect within Yosmite and are even using newer 10.10 stuff.
Thats why I asked what isn’t working anymore.
Strange, works fine in one of my apps in Yosmite.
https://forum.xojo.com/15430-customnssearchfieldmbs-on-yosemite-missing-search-icon
I read a very precise report from Sam Rowlands about things he bumped into, But I cannot locate that back. Sorry.
[quote=128674:@Norman Palardy]There’s a difference between “existing code breaks” and “new functionality is not available in 32 bit versions”.
Apple is definitely doing the latter - not the former.[/quote]
For all intents and purposes, both will break apps currently on the shelf. That is unfortunate.
I was just commenting mainly based on Sam’s reports who seem to show that indeed, declares he has been using no longer work. I have no reason to doubt his word, since he is one of the most competent in the matter.
The latter doesn’t “break” the app - it certainly puts pressure on the developer to move to 64 bit so they CAN support all the new features using the new features that are 64 bit only.
We’re very aware of this. Its one reason 64 bit is very important to Xojo Inc as there are features in the OS X runtimes that we cannot take advantage of until we’re a 64 bit app and you can create them. Toss in supporting 64 bit apps on Linux (esp things like … oh … web edition) and 64 bit is a huge deal
But the IDE is far from “broken” on 10.10
[quote=128687:@Norman Palardy]The latter doesn’t “break” the app - it certainly puts pressure on the developer to move to 64 bit so they CAN support all the new features using the new features that are 64 bit only.
We’re very aware of this. Its one reason 64 bit is very important to Xojo Inc as there are features in the OS X runtimes that we cannot take advantage of until we’re a 64 bit app and you can create them. Toss in supporting 64 bit apps on Linux (esp things like … oh … web edition) and 64 bit is a huge deal
But the IDE is far from “broken” on 10.10[/quote]
I did not mean to say the IDE was broken. Just that some apps using declares may be broken under Yosemite.
[quote=128664:@Michel Bujardet]Christoph, you should have followed several posts Sam made in other threads about calls to the framework that no longer work in 32 bits in Yosemite. I cannot locate them at this moment. This was confirmed by Christian Schmitz.
Oliver Osswald also discovered NSSearchField seems to be affected.
[/quote]
For the latter, I am absolutely sure this is just a visual beta bug in the public Yosemite Preview and will vanish until the final version. There would be no sense in putting parts like system icon calls into a 64 bit Framework when the old one will be continued.
I have yet found only SpriteKit which denies being called to by Xojo. Its 64 bit exclusively. And Im very certain Metal will be too. After all, Apple is still in the transition to a pure 64 bit system, and I see no sign of them shifting everything up to 64 bit with the over-next OS release.
I concur, I would like to sit down for a moment or two![quote=128643:@Christoph De Vocht]@Sam Rowlands Unfortunately due to changes in Yosemite (such as at least one framework appearing to be 64-Bit only)
Which one?[/quote]
Currently the one I’ve found in my travels is NSSharingServices, both Christian and I logged it with Apple a while ago. After they misunderstood me, they closed my bug anyway. Since then, we’ve had 3 DPs and they’ve not ported it (yet, I remain hopeful).
While I’ve only found one so far, it doesn’t mean that there are not others.[quote=128673:@Norman Palardy]@Michel Bujardet The latest one is the 32 bits code that does not work in Yosemite.
Pardon ?
Who told you it doesn’t work ?[/quote]
Me! There is zero 32-Bit code in the framework, where as under 10.8 & 10.9 there is 32-Bit and 64-Bit code. It’s not a new framework, but for some reason they either forgot to back port to 32-Bit or decided simply not to do so and removed the old 32-Bit code from the previous version.
Nearly all our applications use NSSharingServices in some way or form.
[quote=128786:@Sam Rowlands]I
Me! There is zero 32-Bit code in the framework, where as under 10.8 & 10.9 there is 32-Bit and 64-Bit code. It’s not a new framework, but for some reason they either forgot to back port to 32-Bit or decided simply not to do so and removed the old 32-Bit code from the previous version.
Nearly all our applications use NSSharingServices in some way or form.[/quote]
AH but “my app now doesn’t run at all because its 32 bit” is not quite the problem.
“Our apps use a framework which is not 32 bit” is an entirely different problem.
Unless Apple change this in the next DP or GM, we’re facing the loss of functionality on 10.10; it’s totally beyond my control and telling customers, “I’m sorry but we’re still using the old system that Apple is no longer fully supporting” is not going to make my customers happy.
The difference is, had I used a different tool to build my apps, it would be a simple re-compile and everything is good.
So yes, it doesn’t mean that my app no longer can open, but it does mean that my customers are going to lose features, they’re going to come to me and I have no way to fix this. For me, I’m stuffed; providing of course Apple don’t provide this framework in 32-Bit.
Off to whinge on the ADF.
@Sam: do you really consider posting to Facebook an essential part of your applications? And there are no alternatives for doing this?
In terms of backwards compatibility, I thought this was a good (short) read where he proposes to plan for future compatibility…
http://blog.ircmaxell.com/2013/06/backwards-compatibility-is-for-suckers.html
I also hope this is just a mistake by Apple. We don’t use this framework ourselves but if they are starting to remove 32 bit frameworks there could be an even bigger surprise next year if they remove support for an even more important framework. Since all recent Apple hardware and operating systems (OS X / iOS) are 64 bit I wouldn’t be surprised if they aren’t already looking at when they can remove 32 bit altogether so that it simplifies their development process.
I think having llvm / 64 bit compilation for Mac will become quite critical for Xojo developers and possibly Xojo itself sooner than we think.
That is because the very same Microsoft never corrected the bugs in that code !
;-