There are still many Vista machines out there. And XP - which I run by choice. According to Netmarketshare for April about 16% of machines run XP ( more than Win 8, which is crud ) and Vista nearly 2%. OS X is < 6%.
If you put a bit of effort into Vista it is much like Win 7.
Maybe life is rosy and modern in Europe, but here in the third world things are often a bit older.
2015r2.1 seems to be working just fine in Vista here. Installer ran without trouble and the IDE launched as expected.
Any other information you can provide? Have you tried a different user account or a different installation?
[quote=185109:@Peter Job]There are still many Vista machines out there. And XP - which I run by choice. According to Netmarketshare for April about 16% of machines run XP ( more than Win 8, which is crud ) and Vista nearly 2%. OS X is < 6%.
If you put a bit of effort into Vista it is much like Win 7.
Maybe life is rosy and modern in Europe, but here in the third world things are often a bit older.[/quote]
I lived in Cameroon for a while, and my son who was born there still does business in Yaounde. I even used a local Internet Cafe everyday for a while, and their PCs were at least ten years old. So I do know the US and Europe enjoy a much more recent state of technology. Yet I am always amazed by their industrustrious and entrepreneurial qualities. Yes, Vista is not that far from Windows 7, except the second one is solid as a rock.
I do understand the need to support XP, and my next app will actually bring the Modern UI Metro style to it, I am making sure of it. But admittedly, marketing wise, XP is a whole lot less sexy than Window 10. So would it be the case between a brand new Tesla and an immortal but yet kind of unassuming Toyota like the ones used for Taxi in Africa.
People who develop apps for the general public like me depend on the new for their livelihood. I could not survive if I did not have new versions all the time. And I know it is the same for the majority of professional people who are in the Mac App Store.
On the topic of Xojo 2015R2.1 apparently installer not working on Vista, I am still very reserved. Amazingly, I kept all copies of XP, but after a bad experience with Vista being sluggish and unfriendly, jumped right over Windows 7 and have no way of testing. But I would be surprised Xojo did not test at all. Correction. I see Paul did. As we all know, between half baked updates, incompatible drivers and pesky antiviruses or other system repairers, there could be thousands of reasons why a particular software simply won’t install. Pending further verification, I think the kind of recriminations I read from the OP may be a bit hasty.
Installer downloads runs & installs fine here on an HP s3100n with 2Gb RAM and a 2.1 Ghz AMD Athlon processor.
That machine is just painful to try & do anything because its so slow but, it works as advertised here.
I literally just finished doing this.
And that’s already 3 engineers trying to help.
That’s the Xojo I know.
I also just pulled by Vista Business 64-Bit box out of the closet, yanked out 6GB of RAM to get it down to 2GB and 2015r2.1 still runs fine.
I am curious though… @Doug Gamble, did you happen to have another copy of Xojo running when you tried to launch 2015r2.1?
Forgot to mention my VM only had 1.5GB of RAM allocated.
well… I guess this issue is solved, isn’t it?
I don’t know. As long as it doesn’t install for him as a Xojo customer, he deserves to be helped.
Would be nice to get extra info though.
Difficult to help with the current amount of info.
I’m impressed by the response of everyone. As I originally said the machine is a Toshiba M400 with 2 gb of ram running a fresh install of Vista with all service packs installed. Rather than just testing my software I tried installing XOJO on a whim really and found if failed. I NEVER planned on making it a development machine, it would be awful. And it could just be the installer, hell it could be my machine. This thread started out with me saying it wouldn’t install and asking about regression testing (something I know about and doubt is happening based on observations).
@Greg O’Lone you said regression testing was done with each version … why was the vista machine in a closet with 6gb and not the minimum standard as project management standards would dictate and on a test bench running to tst issues with Vista and waiting for regression testing? And how was full alpha, beta, and regression testing done in days between 2015R2 and 2015R2.1. So far every answer I have heard is bull. Just admit it was a bad decision to release 2.1 without more testing?!? Is that so hard?
And I’m not trying to start a frame war, I love XOJO. But I hate what is being done to it, or at least the desktop versions and the lack of bug fixes being released on a timely basis. I would love to see RS publish some metrics on the bug queue … how many are in it and sort and group them by age. Then start with the oldest and start putting out fixes. That’s but I want but we all have wants and ahos.
I would like very much to have a phone conversation with Greg O’Lone regarding some of these concerns and perhaps it would result in a license renewal and improved software for all. At least it would shut me up on this subject, for a time at least. I know I’m not alone in these concerns of bug fixes being seemingly ignored in favor of new features because you can see it in nearly every forum group on a regular basis. I’m just being blunt and to the point and not making excuses like others.
Thank you everyone for you honest input on this matter … it’s always the best way of solving things, by talking and helping each other.
I’m sorry you’re having trouble with Xojo on Vista.
To answer your questions…
I don’t typically run vista on physical hardware. There’s just not enough room on my desktop for that and I have 30+ virtual machines. It’s also a lot easier to test multiple configurations this way.
Secondly, my vista box is a development machine, not a testing machine. It had vista on it from a previous job and 8GB because that’s all the motherboard supports. I usually max out my dev machines because I really hate to wait.
Third, I think we have already established that the problem is not with Xojo. Three of us have tried your configuration and none of us can reproduce the problem. Unless you can provide more information about this, there is not much more we can do to help.
By the way, do any apps written with xojo run on this machine? Have you tried Feedback for instance?
Also, when you launch Xojo, does it appear in the process list? I’ve seen behavior like this if you try to launch more than one instance of Xojo at a time.
Your question assumed Greg is a tester. He is a programmer. I don’t know who the testers are either but expecting a programmer to be geared up as a tester instead of a programmer seems unrealistic.
Oh, Vista
Well FWIW if you attempt to install as an administrator then all should be well.
Since attempting to install as a standard user does indeed give the exact symptoms as the OP suggests in that nothing happens there is no response as well as nothing is registered in the processes as running neither does the logs or events give the desired trace info away, so there is not really anything to say. It would seem this is a feature that helps to make this OS flavour so easily eschewed.
HTH.
Thanks for you reply Greg. I had hoped that XOJO had dedicated tester that worked of of a test script for any release that was only modified to test new featured. The last person that should be doing the testing is the programmers. But the testing should also be done on computers and browsers that only meet the minimum requirements, not the max, they should all be fresh installs without XOJO installed.
As for all the other debugging tips I have done some of them but the honest truth is I never intended to make a development after the fact. I’m upset the bug queue gets so little attention machine out of 2gb Vista machine. I just wanted to see if it would do it and when it didn’t and earlier versions did it made me wonder how much testing there was and how good the testing was. I’m more upset that 2.1 was released so quickly after 2 without the testing it needed, even it it had passed all testing which I can’t believe there was time for all the test scripts to be run (based on much personal history designing, writing, testing, documenting and getting software out the door that can be supported without stopping future development). There are so many desktop version errors out there that need version 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.4 ,2.5 , … and we both know we will never see it.
Like have said before I love XOJO and done want a flame war or a 6 week thread of ongoing back and forths. I worked the industry for too long not to see a problematic situation and this is one. Too many bugs being ignored in favor of new features, outdated docs (not help files but documentation), and a weak installer that should catch situations like not enough memory on different OS’s and platforms. XOJO could rule the industry and become the VB of the 21st century but not with defects like these. That is the real takeaway here, missed opportunities. But that is just one man’s opinion.
Yes, that is what it is
Apparently endless repetitions on a theme…
At least he has the guts to say things needing to be said, and repeated. Unlike all the yes-men and fanbois around here.
Being one of the testers, and hopefully a lucid aficionado (Who loves well, chastises well), I have my content of frustrations about my pet bugs never fixed, or placed on a waiting list like 432th rank in Feedback.
I have used RB since 2002, which gives me maybe a less passionate perspective on a tool unique enough to have brought to me the ability to compete in the software market, in particular for Mac, with an edge.
Now Doug probably needs to vent, and that’s alright. But does he have all the facts ? Kant said very well that the closer we get, the less we see the bigger picture. Seen from his lab, fighting a particular bug in a new version that was released very fast, his conclusion is that Xojo does not care, releases too fast and untested, and does not document well enough and often enough. Now, zoom back a bit. What is the difference between any of us and Xojo ?
Most of us create user software. Meaning applications. In terms of clients, and although the Universe keeps producing better idiots, we get pretty good at devising idiot proof apps. Besides, the specs for an application are finite, and once the app does what it is supposed to do, one cannot expect it to do something else than what it is supposed to do.
I did not suspect the major difference between user apps and developer tools until I embarked on providing a third party tool with RubberViews. Since the release, I have had about half a dozen fellow programmers coming to me with very sensible requests, based on their app, that I had never envisioned. Plus some very real bugs that only real life apps could have revealed. They were in the middle of development, with deadlines, and counted on me to fix these urgent matters. Should I have done line the communist plenum and placed that in the next 50 years plan ? certainly not. I did my best to provide a fix in hours when possible, a day at most. Because the developer crowd, besides being just as impatient as a standard user, has imperatives and expectations that go well beyond your ordinary John Dow.
Zoom back a little more. Xojo has the same concern, with a huge crowd of 80,000 users who are, when it comes to this forum, both experienced and extremely demanding, not to mention vocal. When 2015R2 was released, it quickly demonstrated unexpected issues, and a couple users posted here reports of issues that could not be worked around. What should have Xojo done ? Waited some like another month or two until the guy died ? No, I don’t think so. They scrambled to provide a fix. Did they neglect to test ? Certainly not. It is unfortunate the beta reports do not appear in feedback, so Doug can see there are beta testers who do their max to spot rough edges
There were half a dozen beta versions of 2.1. I would not quote that as hasty.
Seems to me there are contradictory requests here :
If the first condition is to be fulfilled, how could testing be more thorough and documentation picture perfect ? Yet, along all those years, I have seen time and again RB go through motions with grace, in particular with Apple and its change of hardware and software platform, so much so code I wrote in 2002 for OS 9 works with minor adjustments in Yosemite 10.10 twelve years later. In comparison, VB code from that era long went to the bin.
Now for the adventurous foray in new technologies Xojo should abstain of to keep the sanctity of the existing temple. Today PCs sell in about 233 million a year, desktop and laptop combined, Mac OS X and Windows. iOS devices, 160 millions and growing. Should Xojo simply decide not to board the train ? The request for Xojo iOS was a solid first in the Feedback ranking system. Should all the users who voted for it be simply left in the cold ?
I am a professional developer. That means I managed to survive since 1987 through all the changes in technology by constantly keeping current, at the risk of not contenting fans of the olden days. That means i also had my failings and occasionally completely missed the boat. That made me a bit more humble, believe it or not. I am no longer master of the universe judging others from the grandeur of my pedestal.
No, I am not a fan boy. I am just a honest software craftsman who knows the difficulties of the trade, and respects the honest work of another software lab. This does not exclude the occasional rant. But at least, I try to keep things in perspective.
I got as far as Kant, who also said “Whoever makes himself a worm cannot complain when he is then trampled underfoot.” I’ll try to watch where I step.
Being honest and humble does not mean making oneself a worm. Mind you, humility is not servility. Just having enough intellectual honesty to see the difference between delusions of grandeur and justified pride. As for trampling others, that is never an acceptable conduct, nor a sign of sanity.