2015r2.1 won't load on Vista box with 2gb of ram

I have a good working Toshiba M400 with 2gb of ram and it won’t load 2015R2.1. You guys do do regression testing on all you new releases right?

We do. Did you get any errors when this happened?

Observation #1: As a developer, whenever I see a report that only exists of the two words “won’t load” or “doesn’t work” I start thinking working at McDonald’s probably isn’t so bad.

Observation #2: I wouldn’t run REAL or Xojo on a 2GB box as it is. On 1GB it’s intolerable. On 2B it’s barely tolerable. On 4GB it works the way it’s supposed to work.

Observation #3: Xojo System Requirements (from xojo.com) => Windows Vista or later (x86 or x64), At least 2 GB RAM

Observation #4: Maybe #1 and #2 were a little harsh (not saying they are wrong - but harsh maybe) - I mean, do they really answer the question

That’s precisely why they were Observations. If they were trying to answer the question I would have called them “Answers”. =)

Since there seems to be interest… what I was referring to in Observation #1 is that if you report something and JUST say “doesn’t work” or “won’t load”, that could mean absolutely anything and almost demands the return question “can you be more specific?” If you went to an auto repair place and JUST said “my car doesn’t work”, you probably won’t get your head bopped with a crescent wrench, but it’s almost a certainty that the mechanic is thinking it. =)

Do techs a favor and, while being brief, be a little more specific right off the bat so the tech can ask you the right sort of questions to advance toward a solution. Stay out of the Land of Duh.

Vista is intolerable with any memory size, IMO :wink:

But I do have a Toshiba Transformer Book with 1Gb only and Windows 8, that runs 2015R2 very nicely.

Guess its all a matter of system optimization.

In order to test software for release I need to make sure it runs on each of the platforms I claim it supports, In 2015R2.1 when the installer runs on a Vista box with 2 gb of memory it justs does nothing … no errors, no installation, no Ronald McDonald selling fries, nothing. With earlier versions of XOJO it has installed and run, all be it slowly, but it has run without errors. I wouldn’t use it as a development box but I do expect XOJO to meet the manufactures specs. It does not. I’m not surprised to hear people having success running it Windows 8.1 in 1gb because it is a much more mature operating system (something Garth could learn from).

Each version of XOJO introduces 10 new features, 5 fixes and 20 new bugs. The problem log goes back for YEARS! To the good folks at RS PLEASE atleast do something about the visual bugs in the UI. Groupboxes don’t work right visually in Windows or Mac and have not for years. The Movie control still isn’t right, In the true sense XOJO cannot create a true 100% Windows or Mac compatible application. They don’t meet the standard laid out my either manufacture because of the visual problems, and the workarounds don’t work!!! Please either fix the bugs or drop the desktop components and just concentrate on the Web and iOS stuff. That is where it seems most of the time and effort goes anyway. As a desktop top developer that uses the cross-platform features and is intrigued by iOS I won’t spend $700 EACH YEAR for this kind of support or lack of it. It isn’t cost efficient.

I don’t want the desktop systems to go away but they are becoming more and more difficult to use with each release which is just the opposite of how it should be. All problems should be addressed within 90 days and the IDE must be fixed or replaced with one the works correctly. The current one is getting worse with each release, and Garth if you don’t know what I’m talking about go to your local McDonalds and ask them to explain it … they are smarter than you think.

[quote=185074:@Doug Gamble]
Each version of XOJO introduces 10 new features, 5 fixes and 20 new bugs. The problem log goes back for YEARS!

… Please either fix the bugs or drop the desktop components and just concentrate on the Web and iOS stuff. That is where it seems most of the time and effort goes anyway. [/quote]

That is how it always has been. Features before fixes, marketing before engineering. In a way, it is good that Windows has not had much attention for a while - at least that way the old bugs are left to lie still without fixes introducing even more.

I disagree Peter. If you are going to continue to market a product then you must maintain that product or the weight of it will drag the company to it’s death. If you are going to do something do it right or don’t bother to do it at all. I do agree that marketing is running the company here and software engineering has little if any input into the process. Perhaps that is the best way of describing the underlying problem.

I cannot say that that is our experience with RS/Xojo. We professionally use Xojo every day in our development team of 4 devs (2 on windows and 2 on mac) and have seen some instability over the years, but have seen the language slowly improve over the years. New features get added, some bugs get introduced, but bugs also get fixed and some release were almost only bug fixes.
I agree that if the system requirements state it should work, it should indeed work, but I also think that not being able to install the IDE on your machine could be related to other things, like an anti-virus program that interferes with install maybe? That’s where Garth is right and you really should provide more info.

Do I get it correctly that you are trying to install the IDE just to see if your software runs on the platform (Vista in this case)? If so, that’s a bad idea. You are making that machine into a dev machine, instead of using a clean machine to test. It is better to just take your app and install/put it on the test machine. If you really need to debug, then use the remote debugger instead of installing the IDE.

Maybe you should answer Greg’s question? Greg works for the Xojo company after all. He is obviously trying to help you. It also shows that they are listening to you and that theoretically it should work on Vista, and therefore it is maintained. Allow him to help you and see where you get. There is no point in just complaining, since that won’t fix you issue.

I believe he has.

Sorry. I guess I wasn’t specific enough.
Is there anything to be seen in the Windows Event Viewer?
If you download and run DebugView (https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb545046) , do you see any messages that might indicated failure?
If you still don’t see anything, then does Process Monitor (download from the same site) show you anything that might indicate why it fails?
Give Greg something to work with, or at least try.

Sorry that last link should be https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb842062

Yes, I did. And I do thank Greg for taking an interest in this issue since most other problems posted here are helped by other users or left unanswered. It would be nice to see more RS employee’s involvement on the board and see more of an interest being taken in helping users with solving problems, and more than just pointing someone to an example program and telling them just do what this is doing and you have it working in no time, when the two issues are quite different, Tech support takes time and if you make a huge product like XOJO the support of it is going to take significant resources. This doesn’t seem to be understood at RS and it will ultimately be their downfall if it isn’t fixed. Don’t sell something unless you can support it (regression testing each version, alpha and beta testing, updating help files and printed docs, tech support staff, maintenance programmers, …).

I know I’m being very critical here but I really believe it is time to take off the gloves and start telling RS what I see in posts over and over: “no it doesn’t work but this doesn’t work either and hasn’t for years” and “try this work around it’s the best you can do until they fix it, it’s been in the queue for almost 10 years now”. Any company I’ve worked for or ran would have all new personal in weeks if this didn’t change pronto. It’s embarrassing to even be a developer and pay $700 a year to be treated like this?!?

It isn’t all bad, many great features have come out and Dirk is right some have been very successful in there own right but they have done little to solve the big picture. We need a solid IDE and all old bugs fixed before more cool features are added, and an attitude that bugs must be tracked and solved within a reasonable time so developers can truly trust XOJO to make a true viable product they can market. I’d like some feed back from RS about all these issues.

Mmm what are your intentions? Why you want to run the IDE on such crippled down systems… on vista… cough do you just want to start a flamewar? I do not know any other Developer using such old hardware from 2007 or 2008 for his IDE…

I tend to develop my software on modern workstations with current OS. To me it is more important that my xojo-made software runs on these targets and they really do run pretty well. Even on Atom Tablets (like the HP Stream) or small Barebone Boxes (like the Zotac) from WinXP up to Win10.

[quote=185088:@Doug Gamble] This doesn’t seem to be understood at RS and it will ultimately be their downfall if it isn’t fixed.

I know I’m being very critical here but I really believe it is time to take off the gloves and start telling RS what I see in posts over and over:

It isn’t all bad, [/quote]

I’m glad someone is saying these things. RB and now Xojo are really useful languages and I still like RB a lot. Xojo have some really nice people too, as shown on this forum.

That said, the business model of concentrating on the new and doing little to fix the old won’t lead to their downfall. They have worked like that since RB 1. You always paid for the next upgrade in the hope that things got fixed, and you were tempted with the new features which ended up being flaky. No doubt they shed many many users along that path, but there are always more who like the new goodies. So the company continues in that manner - no downfalls. IIRC there were a few releases concentrating on bugs after much bitching on the NUG, but then it was back to the old ways. It is, to me, a tacky business model, but not the fault of those employees we see here.

well… these kind of discussions leads nowhere… there are always to sides: Some see software as something static, complete, finished, once created it will run for eternity till world tumbles… for others software is just a snapshot, something very dynamic, a new born child on its long way to become mature.

Wait. Everybody seems to think it is the IDE that is faulty. If it is the installer, that is a totally different ball game. I would try to copy the ‘Xojo 2015 Release 2.1’ folder to the Vista machine from a more recent version of Windows and see if it runs fine. I suspect it will.

So if indeed that is, as I believe, the installer that is faulty, Xojo can be blamed maybe for not testing throroughly enough installation on Vista, but not for bad engineering. I doubt very very much the installer builder is made by Xojo. I would even go as far as wedging it is InnoSetup. Then InnoSetup is the bad guy here. The vilain who neglected respectable old systems.

Oh, by the way, the last copy of Vista sold in 2010. We are now 4 years and some crumbs away. In Internet years, that would be 18.8 years, according to http://www.fatdux.com/blog/2009/09/22/calculating-the-length-of-an-internet-year/

How many versions did we have for our own software ? 4 ? ten ? More ? What are the cycles of that industry ? How many versions of RB/Xojo since ?

At one point, venting frustration is probably good for emotional balance, but is it quite reasonable to scream and yell about an old system that was never quite right in the first place, and which bugs, or the lack of a service pack, may very well explain the installation issue.

When a customer comes at me complaining with an outdated version of my products not installing under Windows 8.1, I frankly do not feel any pinch of guilt. One thing is for sure. Asking courteously rather than grouching goes a long way to obtain support.

BTW, is it not a thousand times better to file an actionable bug report, than to start a public tribunal ?