ARM64 - it's time!

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  2. 8 weeks ago

    Alberto D

    Mar 28 Testers, Xojo Pro Austin, Texas
    Edited 8 weeks ago

    @Norman P If they decide to add 64 bit arm I wouldnt be surprised to see it as part of a paid for license option

    Almost all people that posted in this thread is identified as a Xojo Pro user, so I bet they don't mind if others need to pay for that option.

  3. Björn E

    Mar 28 Testers, Xojo Pro Iceland

    @Gavin S Actually, this request hasn't got much to do with the Raspberry Pi for me. Getting 64-bit ARM Linux builds brings the last remaining part of Xojo to the 64-bit world. It's increasingly assumed in the Linux world, that if you're wanting to run ARM Linux of some flavor, that it's going to be 64-bit. Go to Ubuntu's website, for example, and download their ARM server offering. It's 64-bit, just by default, they don't even offer 32-bit on the download page. (I assume it's still available, buried somewhere on the site).

    The goal of this thread is to bring together people who are interested in this and show Xojo that it would be of value. It's not for one or two people to repeatedly post about how they're not interested.

    Its same for me I don't really use Raspeberry for anything else than testing, when its for something actual then I always use different ARM boards. And most of the better ones now are 64 bit and with 4 Gig of memory.

  4. Tim J

    Mar 28 Testers, Xojo Pro N. Phoenix, AZ

    @Norman P If they decide to add 64 bit arm I wouldnt be surprised to see it as part of a paid for license option

    That would definitely work for me.

  5. Eugene D

    Mar 28 Testers, Xojo Pro Canada scispec.ca

    @Gavin S The goal of this thread is to bring together people who are interested in this and show Xojo that it would be of value. It's not for one or two people to repeatedly post about how they're not interested.

    Hi Gavin,

    I receive many requests for work on the Raspberry Pi, and the common denominator for requests from a client and my programming aspects are speed.

    1. if 64 bit makes Xojo apps run faster with Xojo, then yes.
    2. if implementing a better/different timer makes Xojo apps run faster with Xojo, then yes
    3. if optimizing Xojo code makes Xojo apps run faster with Xojo then yes.
    4. If implementing multi-core use with Xojo makes the apps run faster, then yes.

    It really doesn't matter to me if its ARM64 or not, the programs need to run faster with better and finer timing for hardware work with the Raspberry Pi. Will ARM64 implementation make Xojo apps run faster/better?

    In my humble opinion, a recurring theme on the Pi (Raspbian), Windows, and other OS's is that the most beneficial way for Xojo to be better is for Xojo code to increase optimization (faster programs, smaller programs, better quality, etc.). This can be broadly be said about all other programming languages and computers.

    Xojo seems to be a shell. Meaning that a program to be used with Xojo seems to require plugins, declares, third party libraries, work-arounds, etc. If this is the direction that Xojo want to go, then thats ok, just make it known that this is the direction. To perform electronic work on the Pi (ARM64 or not) requires 3rd party libraries - again Xojo is just a shell. Its not a bad thing, This likely makes it very tough for Xojo to remain in the current market, as there are many different programming shells that heavily rely on third-parties to do the work for them such as Christian and Bjorn for their great plugins.

    Adding ARM64 support fits the model of Xojo being a shell. This would allow other businesses to create third-party support for what Xojo doesn't or possibly does not want to create. Its all good, it really seems like Xojo is a shell.

    This is just my opinion when looking at Xojo as a paid customer.

  6. Gavin S

    Mar 28 Testers, Xojo Pro, Forum Moderators, MVP UK

    @Eugene D Will ARM64 implementation make Xojo apps run faster/better?

    I'm going to use the Pi as an example again, just because it's really easy to get stats for and to do direct comparisons, but again, as much as I love it, the Raspberry Pi isn't actually my focus here. Anyway, using a 64-bit OS on a Pi 4 pretty much gives performance increases across the board. Here are some good figures, produced on the Pi 4 with 64-Bit ARM Debian.

    https://medium.com/@matteocroce/why-you-should-run-a-64-bit-os-on-your-raspberry-pi4-bd5290d48947

  7. Emile S

    Mar 28 Europe (France, Strasbourg)

    @Derk J If they only knew what we've build with xojo on the Pi.

    Only you, Rpi developers can advertise what you’ve done with it.

    Maybe a web page with what each on you have done (a page or two of explanations / screen shots).

  8. Derk J

    Mar 28 Testers, Xojo Pro

    @Emile S Only you, Rpi developers can advertise what you’ve done with it.

    Maybe a web page with what each on you have done (a page or two of explanations / screen shots).

    Will come once it's completely ready to launch.

  9. Christian S

    Mar 28 Testers, Xojo Pro, XDC Speakers, Third Party Store Germany

    Well, I worked on my build system today and get future targets added.

    On the way to do iOS, I also did some work on ARM64 and already build >100 plugins for ARM 64bit here.
    The rest is more or less some work, but nothing difficult.

    I also build an iOS plugin for testing.

  10. 6 days ago

    Frederick R

    May 20 Testers, Xojo Pro Jacksonville, Florida

    Ubuntu 20.04 LTS is Now Certified for the Raspberry Pi
    https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2020/05/ubuntu-20-04-lts-is-certified-for-the-raspberry-pi

  11. Gavin S

    May 20 Testers, Xojo Pro, Forum Moderators, MVP UK
    Edited 6 days ago

    @Gavin S It's time for ARM64 builds.

    Please support 64-bit ARM builds on Linux by adding any spare Feedback points you have to Feedback Case #42794

    It's currently the 19th most popular Feedback case. Tell Xojo what you want next.

    Now 7th.

  12. Tim J

    May 20 Testers, Xojo Pro N. Phoenix, AZ

    @Gavin S Now 7th.

    And how long was Android 1st?

  13. 5 days ago

    Gavin S

    May 21 Testers, Xojo Pro, Forum Moderators, MVP UK

    @Tim J And how long was Android 1st?

    Feedback requests are not the only way they decide what to work on, there are lots of other factors. Anyway, a whole new Android target is an order of magnitude more complex than ARM64 builds would be.

    (Now 6th.)

  14. Tim J

    May 21 Testers, Xojo Pro N. Phoenix, AZ

    @Gavin S Feedback requests are not the only way they decide what to work on, there are lots of other factors. Anyway, a whole new Android target is an order of magnitude more complex than ARM64 builds would be.

    (Now 6th.)

    So what was the purpose of your post above if not to imply that the feedback support was going to possibly drive a new decision at Xojo?

  15. Gavin S

    May 21 Testers, Xojo Pro, Forum Moderators, MVP UK

    @Tim J So what was the purpose of your post above if not to imply that the feedback support was going to possibly drive a new decision at Xojo?

    @Gavin S Feedback requests are not the only way they decide what to work on, there are lots of other factors.

    Like I said, Feedback requests are a contributing factor. There are many things that Xojo have implemented over the years after customer demand. I'm simply saying that it's obviously not the only factor.

  16. Mike C

    May 21 Testers, Xojo Pro North Carolina (USA)

    @Gavin S Now 7th.

    I just made it 5th.

  17. 2 days ago

    Dirk C

    2 days ago Testers, Xojo Pro Belgium, Zedelgem

    It was down to 8th. I brought it back to 6th again.

  18. yesterday

    Björn E

    yesterday Testers, Xojo Pro Iceland

    I added few more points. Its now 5th.

  19. Christian S

    yesterday Testers, Xojo Pro, XDC Speakers, Third Party Store Germany

    @Björn Eiacute;ksson, did you build your plugins already for ARM64?

  20. 5 hours ago

    Derek T

    5 hours ago Testers, Xojo Pro Minneapolis

    I wanted to voice my opinion here,

    Personally I'm more concerned about Web 2.0 getting attention, All my ARM targets can execute 32 bit code without issue.

    I'm sure we will see 64bit ARM support in the future as things move along.

  21. Tim J

    5 hours ago Testers, Xojo Pro N. Phoenix, AZ
    Edited 4 hours ago

    @Derek Traxler Personally I'm more concerned about Web 2.0 getting attention, All my ARM targets can execute 32 bit code without issue.

    And, personally, I have no use for Web 2.0 and need Linux and Windows fixes far more specifically. But, I also see 64bit ARM support opening up channels that I can't reach right now. Remember Pi may be ARM, but ARM does not only mean Pi.

    And the key word in both of our statements is "personally". If you don't need 64bit ARM support, then don't "vote" here. A down-vote in the forum thread isn't going to sway the rest of us who do need what's being discussed.

    It's really ironic the way that so many so quickly go to the "Xojo can only focus on one thing at a time" attitude anytime someone else pushes for something that's not in their personal interest. There really are a number of specialist at Xojo whose work efforts don't overlap. Let them do their jobs.

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