Transitioning to Xojo 2019r2

  1. ‹ Older
  2. 4 months ago

    Ivan T

    Oct 31 Pre-Release Testers

    @Anthony C OK, folks. I just had a 45 minute long meeting with Geoff and Travis. What I can say is that a future version of Xojo will get us a resolution on the issue with Events. I'm confident after our discussion that the path they're taking will get us there.

    As for Properties, that's a much more difficult proposition, and if a solution to that can be had, I'm not sure of its feasibility. We discussed, but it's a very complicated problem. They had some ideas, and I made some suggestions, but the ball is in their court to find and implement the best one. They do want to address these issues in a way that helps those of us feeling this pain, they just have to find the right route to take.

    In short, after speaking with them, I feel much better about where future versions of Xojo are going to lead us, and about our ability to support older versions of Xojo. The most encouraging part, and one I hope you'll all join me in, is that Geoff and Travis are open to addressing any and all issues that they can feasibly address, and are paying attention. I feel that they have a better understanding of how third-party developers have to support their customers now, and I hope they come up with some great solutions to our collective quandaries.

    Sounds promissing, but, also did web 2.0 two years ago...

  3. Karen A

    Oct 31 Pre-Release Testers
    Edited 4 months ago

    @Anthony C They had some ideas, and I made some suggestions, but the ball is in their court to find and implement the best one. They do want to address these issues in a way that helps those of us feeling this pain, they just have to find the right route to take.

    My question is why is that only being addressed now, when all these things were complained about loudly during beta?

    The answer during beta was that backwards compatibility has never been guaranteed and this was no different than changes made in the past ...or at least that is how I heard it...

    But the did not sit well with me as it was very different from my experience with new releases in the previous 18 years using the product.

    But at an even more basic level, should not what the reaction to these issues would be, have been obvious to them even before beta testing started?

    Taken all together It seems the concern on Xojo Inc's part happened only after the reaction upon release... and if that is so, I find it very troubling that they did not understand their user base and the product ecosystem well enough to know to expect it...

    And if they did not, what does that say about them understanding our needs and where we need the product to go? At one time I very much trusted in that... so much so that I renewed my license for 5 or 6 years upfront (don't recall exactly). Now i am no longer so sure.

    At least generally, would not that understanding be a significant factor in helping make Xojo more successful?

    -Karen

  4. Phillip Z

    Oct 31 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Florence, SC
    Edited 4 months ago

    The principal reason they don't understand their users was the developer evangelist was more of a marketing position. Paul is great and glad to see he is in engineering where he belongs but that position didn't take hold like it should have. It is supposed to be a thought leader in the community who understands the product and the community. They get us excited about the future but also act as an advocate for our interests to the product team.

    Also, they have poor memory. API 2.0 is to Xojo what Python 3 is to Python. The old new framework is also a perfect example of poor memory. The only thing they seemed to take away from it was next time they should force us to use it.

    Here we are and while API 2.0 is certainly not required... abandoning API 1.0 projects is.

    That's perfectly okay for me as I like progress. I don't like it at the expense of poor platform choices or throwing the barely surviving third party ecosystem under the bus.

  5. Anthony M

    Oct 31 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro
    Edited 4 months ago

    @Geoff P Because the new APIs are more consistent and intuitive. Going forward, users will have a better experience overall.

    No, no and no.

    I’ve been following the threads ever since 2019r2 beta came out and I’ve picked up on the anger, frustration and outright annoyance of the long-time developers using Xojo and, after all that, you still say that API 2.0 is more consistent, intuitive and provides a better user experience. Your “users” have spoken Geoff, and they are not echoing your feelings at all but are, in fact, saying the opposite. I’ve watched as Xojo has stated over and over that things will be better moving forward because of the new APIs while totally ignoring the pleading and begging of its long-time customers to stop, back up and rethink the strategy. It’s tantamount to arrogance.

    The vey best thing Xojo can do right now is to stop the bleeding. Leave API 2.0 as is and, at a bare minimum, roll back the event naming. It’s nuts for plugin developers to have to keep two codebases because of something as useless as changing Open to Opening. All throughout the beta process your users have made it loud and clear that the direction Xojo was going is wrong, counter-productive and would make things harder but Xojo pushed forward anyway. Why? Why did you not listen to your users?

    Geoff, now is the time to fix that. Listen to your users. Really. Chalk this one up as a learning experience and back out of the mess Xojo is currently in and try again. No one would fault you for that and you have an opportunity to gain back the trust of your seasoned users which, frankly, is pretty much gone. You have a good product with a loyal following but you’re in danger of losing that loyalty if you don’t start paying attention to what the people who support you are saying.

  6. Stephen P

    Oct 31 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro

    As a new user for me it was simple - a good third party ecosystem is as valuable as the tool itself. Almost by definition third party products make up for lacking or non existent core product features.

    This was what got me over the line with Xojo and there'll be many others. To not consider impact of this is to hurt your business.

    Xojo now needs to decide if this is a lesson IDENTIFIED or a lesson LEARNED. The difference between the two may well talk to the future if Xojo Inc.

    Steve

  7. Markus R

    Nov 1 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Europe / Germany

    @Edwin L ChildPathName = GetFolderItem(oldpath).child("Child").name

    you can make a global method and it returns a class and it will do the same.
    so your change will be
    ChildPathName = GetFolderItemForever(oldpath).child("Child").name

    before i would change my source code to base 0 string commands i would write my own class or module
    in case of deprecated things get removed in future.

  8. Joost R

    Nov 1 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro The Netherlands

    @Anthony C OK, folks. I just had a 45 minute long meeting with Geoff and Travis. What I can say is that a future version of Xojo will get us a resolution on the issue with Events. I'm confident after our discussion that the path they're taking will get us there.

    There should have been a lot more pro-active communication from Xojo-team to the very well known hard core users in the run up to API 2.0.

  9. Tomas J

    Nov 1 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Europe (Germany)
    Edited 4 months ago

    I've heard a new verb recently.

    to brexit (British English), to say goodbye without leaving, can be repeated and extended several times

    reminds me somehow to the transition from API 1.0 to 2.0 ;-)

  10. Tim S

    Nov 1 Pre-Release Testers Canterbury, UK

    @Tomas J I've heard a new verb recently.

    to brexit (British English), to say goodbye without leaving, can be repeated and extended several times

    reminds me somehow to the transition from API 1.0 to 2.0 ;-)

    No, that's "to brino" (brexit in name only).

  11. Tomas J

    Nov 1 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Europe (Germany)
    Edited 4 months ago

    ... as far as you don't farage....

    (to farage, to hold a loaded gun towards own head and push the trigger)

  12. Emile S

    Nov 1 Europe (France, Strasbourg)

    all of this is boriss me (a contraction using Boris as in the first name of the first and hiss from the snake [Borlaugh ?]).

    To be honest, this is really bor…ing.

    And what to think about the rampant lyings (the NHS will never saw the light of the promised money !)

    Grrrr :(

  13. Anthony C

    Nov 1 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro, XDC Speakers, Third Party Store, Forum Moderators, MVP GraffitiSuite Developer
    Edited 4 months ago

    Please don't stray off-topic guys. That will get our threads shutdown again. We don't need another locked thread that is actually generating useful discussion.

  14. Peter G

    Nov 1 Boston, MA

    As a potential new user, Anthony C's meeting described above sounds like good news to me.

  15. Norman P

    Nov 1 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro outside listening to the crick...

    It is better than silence

  16. Norman P

    Nov 1 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro outside listening to the crick...

    @Anthony C OK, folks. I just had a 45 minute long meeting with Geoff and Travis. What I can say is that a future version of Xojo will get us a resolution on the issue with Events. I'm confident after our discussion that the path they're taking will get us there.

    Color me EXTREMELY skeptical.
    We raised these concerns during the 2019r2 betas
    We were told during the beta "there will be an answer we're working on it"
    And we all hoped
    Another beta came out. And we all hoped that what came out wasnt "it"
    Another beta came out. And it was apparent that was it
    2019r2 shipped
    The complaints persisted and have resulted in several threads on the forums

    And now we're being told, yet again, "there will be an answer we're working on it"

    I remain VERY VERY cautiously optimistic

    This problem is one of Xojo's own making and literally didnt have to exist or require yet more engineering effort to "fix"
    I suspect I am not alone

  17. Dave S

    Nov 1 San Diego, California USA

    @Norman P I suspect I am not alone

    You are not

  18. Gavin S

    Nov 1 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro, Forum Moderators, MVP UK
    Edited 4 months ago

    I'm not angry about API 2.0. I'm glad they're trying to keep the IDE and language modern and I generally have the freedom to update to API 2.0 when I'm ready, and I won't be doing that until this whole thing settles down. I'm more frustrated because I can't remember the last-time Xojo added something really pragmatic and useful to the product - an actual feature or control that I can put into my projects and that my end-users can appreciate.

    Xojo seems to be struggling to modernise and we're paying for the underlying modernisation of the product (which is vitally important) rather than stuff I can use in my apps. I need iCloud integration and in-app purchase stuff and a whole host of other stuff that users simply expect in 2019. Actual stuff I can put into my projects. That's why I got into Xojo in the first place. A RAD environment. Can we get back to that stuff soon? I have money waiting for you guys when you start adding big end-user features again.

  19. Dave S

    Nov 1 San Diego, California USA

    Seriously... if you want to mention features that are "important" (my opinion) that Xojo just seems to be ignoring that they are even required? Xojo should include a native way to Sign/Harden/Notorize (whatever) your app... Of course dependant on supplying Signing Creds etc.... (sorry Sam....)

  20. Alexis C

    Nov 1 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Puerto Rico, USA

    My opinion is API1 or API2 or API3 is perfect but need to works.
    Now i am try to make a simple customer signature in iOS and no works. so this is basic thinks in any application with canvas it works in desktop but no iOS.

    So no happy face for me

  21. Markus R

    Nov 1 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Europe / Germany

    @Gavin S an actual feature

    as Example a build in easy to use Camera Class or QR/Barcode Reader or something?

  22. Newer ›

or Sign Up to reply!