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  2. 2 weeks ago

    Genuine customers if they didn't get the keys or have problems with your app would contact you. I do get some who write to me in their native language.

    But there are those who probably never intended to pay despite needing the services of your apps. Perhaps they just pay it to get an extended uninterrupted period to get their one off work done then ask for the charge back with some lame excuse to get their money's back.

    I do have people who use my app trial, ask for this and that which i fix or add but never buy the app. It's probably just part and parcel of selling online.

    Guess the key might be to get a payment processor who doesn't charge a fee or a low fee for charge back and vet the customers through a blacklist database. Can't suggest any at the moment.

  3. Michel B

    Sep 4 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro
    Edited 2 weeks ago

    @Patrick B Did not know that PayPal provides a means of automating. Last time I checked they didn't.

    You must have checked a long, long time ago. I have been using Paypal IPN to deliver software automatically by download since 2001...

    About chargebacks, it is the word of the card holder against you. If they say they don't recognize a charge, there is pretty much nothing you can do. I have been taking cards since 1998, and never saw a chargeback reversed.

    In fact, RFID lifting probably occurs as we are talking, and it is rather easy to lift card details electronically from six feet away. But electronics à la James Bond are not necessary. Social engineering or fake web sites harvest quantities of cards lately used by other people who had bought card numbers in the dark web.

    No amount of blacklists can protect you against that, because old lady whose credit is near perfect can have her card numbers stolen and not realize it before she gets her statement.

    As I said, chargebacks are a fact of life. If you sell direct to customers, better get used to them. The more you sell, the more chances you will have the honor or thieves.

  4. Jeff T

    Sep 5 Pre-Release Testers Midlands of England, Europe

    Chargebacks happen.
    In my experience, there are 3 kinds:

    1/ Impatience. eg Customer is in the USA, I'm in the UK. They buy at 1am UK time, have a question, send 4 emails (last one in CAPITAL LETTERS) within 30 minutes, then raise a chargeback because I'm 'ignoring them' while I sleep. :)

    2/ Forgetfulness / cash shortage. They buy, and get a credit card charge a month later that says 'FastSpring' or similar, and dispute it because they dont recognise the name, or are short of money. ((FastSpring send an email just prior which reminds them: you bought this, the statement will say 'FastSpring', everything is OK' This helps a lot)

    3/ Simple theft. Some people know it's their word against yours. So they buy, install, then dispute knowing that you have little comeback. This is thankfully rare.

    No-one fights chargebacks very hard.
    But FastSpring do some pretty thorough checks for card misuse before they allow the sale through.

    Dial home is one method to handle this, but it can cause trouble for the good guys.

    (I cant use Paypal directly any longer due to the VAT mess introduced in 2015 for download-only software - not sure how strict it is applied, but the EU demands VAT from suppliers for any software sold for download to European countries.
    I cannot handle that myself, so I pay FastSpring to act for me instead.)

  5. Emile S

    Sep 5 Europe (France, Strasbourg)

    @Patrick B The chargebacks usually occur a couple months after the sale

    I am starting to see the light here: some month after the sale is too many times after the sale. Yes, it is not a car, but can you imagine returning a car two or three months after the sale ?

    Someone who have a temporary need to use your software will use for it, then return it ?

    Did you approch a lawyer to discus what can be done regarding the return delay (8 to 15 days is enough to make an idea about a software) ?

    Other idea: I am not sure, but if the web site I watched is really yours, it looks like no update were done since the “Beatles young days”. Update it (add 2019 as a date, refresh things here and there), so people stop thinking the site is old.

  6. Michel B

    Sep 5 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro
    Edited 2 weeks ago

    @Jeff T Chargebacks happen.
    In my experience, there are 3 kinds:

    You forgot one :

    4/ The card number has been stolen, the card holder is of good faith, and discovers abuse on it's statement. Disputes the charge with the CC company, and by the time the dispute has crawled in the corporate meanders, one more month has elapsed.

    I sell software that can be considered sensitive (MICR fonts that can be used to forge checks). I am regularly the victim of fraudulent purchases, obviously using credit card numbers lifted from their rightful owner.

  7. There is also a 5th :

    A company which did not deliver what was promised and being paid for. I bought the 500PlusPattern pack from SummitSoft on 18 Augustus. After download I tried to install the package which was an .exe file. After several tries, I discovered the package did not install a single pattern. Tried to contact SummitSoft, then tried to contact FastSpring, not a single reply from any of them. Do you wonder I started a PayPal dispute?

    When I see these points 1 to 3 you let it look as every customer asking for a chargeback is after a free ride. But believe me, it isn't. I rather prefer to receive what I have paid for when it is working in good order and does what it has to do. A Paypal escalation is only my last resort when everything else failed. Your honest customer is king.

  8. Jeff T

    Sep 6 Pre-Release Testers Midlands of England, Europe

    When I see these points 1 to 3 you let it look as every customer asking for a chargeback is after a free ride.

    Only those who raise a chargeback without some conversation first.

  9. Completely agreed, it is better to get the problem resolved than receiving a chargeback. Speaking for myself, I only ask for a chargeback after everything else failed because, even knowing that I did everything possible to solve the matter, I feel not good about it. It is better to go for a win/win than for a win/lose situation.

  10. Michel B

    Sep 7 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro

    It is often better to refund at the first request, than to end up with a chargeback.

  11. last week

    the problem is that they never even request a refund. they just initiate a chargeback. I never get an email saying either they were either unhappy in some way with the s/w nor that they thought the charge was fraudulent. they're just jumping right to the chargeback. If they do indeed want to keep using it, my new code should stop them at the door. I have it working but I was thinking of also having it hit a perl script or something on my site if it gets a match on the user as getting a refund. that way I'll know it was triggered and who used it. could probably collect an IP address too.

  12. Michel B

    Sep 9 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro
    Edited last week

    No offense, but you seem bent on believing none of those chargebacks is legitimate.

    How many are you getting ? What is the proportion against your total sales ?

  13. about 20%, and whether or not they are legitimate, it still would be nice to deactivate the license due to non-payment. this might also come in handy for a subscription type sale I'm thinking. if they indeed want to use it, they'll need to repurchase and i can remove their registration from the list to reactivate it.

  14. Michel B

    Sep 9 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro

    20% is absolutely humongous. I have been kicked out of merchant services in the past for much, much less.

  15. Emile S

    Sep 9 Europe (France, Strasbourg)


    a. I remember a group of people “collecting” software (more than 30 years ago). Have you done research on the internet to see if discussions giving the trick to get your software "free"?

    b. What about competitors selling software in the same area ?
    Someone can try to suppress the concurrency with the practices you describe.

  16. Beatrix W

    Sep 9 Pre-Release Testers, Third Party Store Europe (Germany)

    20% of all your sales? I can't believe that.

  17. Julian S

    Sep 10 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro UK

    Maybe a competitor trying to put you out of business?

    I'd speak to your merchant to see if you can get some info on the cards being used to try and find a pattern as there are card services out there today that allow you to create on off cards with custom addresses so it would be trivial for someone to spoof a bunch of "customers" and keeping using "new card numbers" only to charge them back on purpose. All these cards will have a similar set of starting numbers.

    This might not be happening, but its worth a though.

  18. Jeff T

    Sep 10 Pre-Release Testers Midlands of England, Europe

    @Patrick B

    My app does a search for YouTube videos

    Is it this app you mean?
    What does it do that Youtube's own search does not? (actual question not criticism.. just trying to see if users ask the same after they have purchased)

  19. Edited last week

    no it's the SCC Caption Decoder app. the EU adopted some new directive that required a greater degree of accessibility by the end of 2018, which coincides with when I suddenly started getting orders from europe. and 20% is no exaggeration. i have the numbers to prove it. it's odd that they're all from europe too. Spain mostly, but also Germany, France, Belgium, Denmark, and Italy. Never get chargebacks elsewhere.

    With my new perl script i've written, I'll be able to see if someone gets denied access to the s/w. It will give me their registration name, the name of the app and platform, their IP address, and the time GMT when they launched the s/w and got denied access. I might be able use that info to challenge it if I get a chargeback and they get denied access while it's being investigated. I can add their info to the file as soon as I get word there is a chargeback initiated.

  20. We also get daily chargebacks, thats a part of the business, nothing can be done about it.
    We authenticate our software at start via a server, and when we want to stop a user from using the software (after a chargeback for example), we only need to delete his registration details (hardware fingerprint and other data) from the database and he cant use the software any longer. We do this since almost 10 years and have no problems so far.

  21. 6 days ago

    sounds like a great system, Guenter. going forward I should be able to shut off anyone getting a refund for any reason just by adding their name to the list for that particular s/w title. Share-IT says they don't charge the $20 fee that PayPal charges, so I guess I'll stick with them for the time being. They also deny further sales to cards that have gotten chargebacks. they thought that sending them the info on the username and IP address of people accessing the s/w after initiating a chargeback might help them challenge it.

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