Team Xojo - Please Improve the MSSQL Plugin

  1. 3 weeks ago

    Joseph E

    May 23 Pre-Release Testers CA

    There is no shortage of documented issues with the current Xojo plugin for the MSSQL. Here is a sampling:

    Improper Error Codes & Prepared Statements

    More

    More

    More

    More

    More

    If I missed any please add. Searching the forum for MSSQL or MS SQL is too short and results in an error:

    "Note that keywords less than 4 characters in length, and common English words such as 'the' and 'for', aren't included in the search criteria.
    Try searching for this term across all conversations."

    As a Xojo user who needs to have a stable plugin for one of the most common DB systems in use, I am asking that you spend some time on improving this feature. I am sure others who need this will chime in. Some of these issues are very old.

    Thank you!.

  2. Sascha S

    May 23 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Germany
    Edited 3 weeks ago

    In the meantime I can highly recommend the SQL Plugin by MBS ( @ChristianSchmitz ): https://www.monkeybreadsoftware.de/xojo/plugin-sql.shtml

  3. Tanner L

    is not verified May 23 Pre-Release Testers Toronto, Canada

    +1 for MBS. 90% of my work is using SQL Server backends. I wouldn't dream of trying it without MBS. Xojo's Plugin is.. ahem.. less than adequate.

  4. Greg O

    May 23 Xojo Inc

    @Joseph E There is no shortage of documented issues with the current Xojo plugin for the MSSQL. Here is a sampling:

    Improper Error Codes & Prepared Statements

    More

    More

    More

    More

    More

    If I missed any please add. Searching the forum for MSSQL or MS SQL is too short and results in an error:

    "Note that keywords less than 4 characters in length, and common English words such as 'the' and 'for', aren't included in the search criteria.
    Try searching for this term across all conversations."

    As a Xojo user who needs to have a stable plugin for one of the most common DB systems in use, I am asking that you spend some time on improving this feature. I am sure others who need this will chime in. Some of these issues are very old.

    Thank you!.

    These are all great, but forum conversations <> feature requests. You must put them in our Feedback application for them to be recorded.

  5. Norman P

    May 23 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro great-white-software.com

    I'll publicly ask, despite already knowing the answer, why things like plugins arent updated out of band to fix bugs like
    https://forum.xojo.com/25507-ms-sql-server-and-begin-transaction
    They could be since they are easily replaceable in any given install of Xojo and also bundled with the complete download

  6. Jürg O

    May 24 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro

    First and foremost: Yes, the MBS SQL Plugin is currently the best and probably only stable/reliable option. I'm glad we have that. But let's focus on Xojo's MSSQLServerPlugin, please.

    @Bob K : Essentially it means anyone looking at Xojo for Windows apps and using SQL Server will quickly discover this bug and simply move on....Like my client.

    You're not alone. We also have customers that want to have all from one vendor (if possible). It takes time and energy to convince them that MBS is a (better) option. Or one just might loose a potential customer because of that. That's a fact.
    So it should be in Xojo's best interest to have an own MSSQLServerPlugin - and that needs to be stable and reliable for us all to use it (and be it just to have an alternative one can suggest to customers).

    @Greg OLone These are all great, but forum conversations <> feature requests. You must put them in our Feedback application for them to be recorded.

    Sure. Let's put together what we have, and what we need in addition.

    • Feedback Case #32121 RetainSameConnection - Please use the same session for the same open RecordSet (like other database plugins)
    • Feedback Case #16702 SqlSelect crash the App at using MSSqlServerDatabase if using * instead of details field list (Requested to reopen: Fix the Plugin - don't let the Xojo built applications crash. Other Plugins can do that, too!)
    • Feedback Case #16732 Crash when SELECTing * and result contains TEXT-field which is (null)
    • Feedback not yet submitted : @Bob K : preparedStatements aren't actually saving any data and I'm not getting any errors either

    Which ones have I missed? Thanks for adding (or submitting) the Feedback Cases.

  7. natale p

    May 24 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro
    Edited 3 weeks ago

    it is incomprehensible Sql Server is so neglected.
    without explanation. but it is.
    I don't want to offend anyone, but Xojo team is silent or speaks without saying anything about it.
    can you ever believe a customer satisfied with Sql Server abandons it to move to Xojo?
    I remind everyone Sql Server is a leading product in the world. also on Linux, now.
    in addition, the free version (Express) offers excellent performance and storage, even for business applications of at least medium complexity.

  8. Norman P

    May 24 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro great-white-software.com

    @natalepappalardo it is incomprehensible Sql Server is so neglected.

    they rely on "dog fooding" - or using the things they write so they get beaten up as they are used
    and there are aspects that apparently are not used
    this plugin seems to be one

  9. natale p

    May 24 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro

    @Norman P and there are aspects that apparently are not used
    this plugin seems to be one

    I use the MBS plugin and would probably continue to use it even if the Xojo plugin was fully functional.

    but the Xojo license also includes the Sql Server plugin.
    and also the Oracle plugin, which I have used a few times in the past, but it worked badly.

    then a Xojo-MBS agreement would be more correct, to have all the plugins embedded and working well.

  10. Norman P

    May 24 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro great-white-software.com

    @natalepappalardo then a Xojo-MBS agreement would be more correct, to have all the plugins embedded and working well.

    or just open source those they dont actively use ????
    I dunno

  11. Karen A

    May 24 Pre-Release Testers

    @Norman P or just open source those they dont actively use ????
    I dunno

    Don't know if that would work in this community where most likely the vast majority of users don't have the knowledge/skills necessary to support it.

    But I will say this, if Xojo inc can not provide and maintain reliable database plugins for any specific database that customers can depend on, IMO they would be better off not including it. If I need to use 3rd party plugin to do what I need I would much rather know that upfront instead of wasting my time discovering it the hard way.

    Having all the DB plugins might bring in a few customers initially, but I would guess cost them more customers in the long run if they don't perform as advertised/documented. DB connectivity is critical for product like Xojo fro many projects IMO.

    Marketing claims that over promise I think in the long run tend to generate significant amounts of ill will...

    In my own area of expertise there are some instrument manufactures i simply won't buy from because of the types of issues I have experienced with them... Making bad decisions on such things lowers my standing at work and could even cost me my job... I look at it as I gave the vendor a chance and got burnt, so I'm not going to risk that again.

    - karen

  12. Norman P

    May 24 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro great-white-software.com

    @Karen A Don't know if that would work in this community where most likely the vast majority of users don't have the knowledge/skills necessary to support it.

    Sure - that would not be unique to this open source. Most open source projects have tiny contributor bases and this would be no different.

    @Karen A But I will say this, if Xojo inc can not provide and maintain reliable database plugins for any specific database that customers can depend on, IMO they would be better off not including it.

    I'd tend to agree

    @Karen A If I need to use 3rd party plugin to do what I need I would much rather know that upfront instead of wasting my time discovering it the hard way.

    Removing "features" is painful regardless of the reality
    It shortens the feature bullet point list and marketers dont like that

    @Karen A Having all the DB plugins might bring in a few customers initially, but I would guess cost them more customers in the long run if they don't perform as advertised/documented. DB connectivity is critical for product like Xojo fro many projects IMO.

    Given how the vast majority of users seem to use it I would agree

    @Karen A Marketing claims that over promise I think in the long run tend to generate significant amounts of ill will...

    Under promise over deliver

    @Karen A In my own area of expertise there are some instrument manufactures i simply won't buy from because of the types of issues I have experienced with them... Making bad decisions on such things lowers my standing at work and could even cost me my job... I look at it as I gave the vendor a chance and got burnt, so I'm not going to risk that again.

    I think bob and jurg expressed much the same sentiment
    I'm sure there are others

  13. Christian S

    May 24 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro, XDC Speakers Germany

    Even if database plugins would be open source (like the MySQL), it wouldn't help much.

    See my feedback case 29955. I added for a client timeout properties.
    The code is there and can be added by someone at Xojo Inc. by copy & paste to the official plugin.

    It's just reviewed. No comment for 5 years.

  14. Norman P

    May 24 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro great-white-software.com

    At least the open sourced one YOU coudl add it and off you go

    Still waiting for some one at Xojo to comment on this thread or the other

  15. Christian S

    May 24 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro, XDC Speakers Germany

    @Norman P, you worked there, so you know how the company works...

  16. Norman P

    May 24 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro great-white-software.com

    But few others do and I have been asked off these forums why Xojo doesnt do open source of these plugins etc
    And its not my place to state company policy strategy etc as I no longer work there
    Its why I started the other thread
    So others would know
    If Xojo ever decides to reply

  17. Bob K

    May 24 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Kansas City

    @Karen A But I will say this, if Xojo inc can not provide and maintain reliable database plugins for any specific database that customers can depend on, IMO they would be better off not including it. If I need to use 3rd party plugin to do what I need I would much rather know that upfront instead of wasting my time discovering it the hard way.

    Totally agree. I think it would be much better to not include half functioning, buggy, plugins than including them. Why? Because it leaves a very poor first experience if you've spent the money to use Xojo to connect to SQL Server only to have it not work like you'd expect. Customer leaves with a negative experience with Xojo and will be sure to tell their developer friends and colleagues about said poor experience.

  18. Norman P

    May 24 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro great-white-software.com

    Bad word of mouth travels far & fast

  19. Jürg O

    May 24 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro

    @natalepappalardo it is incomprehensible Sql Server is so neglected.

    (not) dogfooding, not much used (because of the obvious issues) - it doesn't help to complain. Let's be constructive with Feedback.

    @Karen A But I will say this, if Xojo inc can not provide and maintain reliable database plugins for any specific database that customers can depend on, IMO they would be better off not including it.

    In my opinion, it would be in Xojo's best interest to keep it in their portfolio. For many reasons - customers requesting to get it from the same vendor. It's part of what one would expect from such a product. And Natale has given another one:

    @natalepappalardo I remind everyone Sql Server is a leading product in the world. also on Linux, now.

    So where do we stand? I think Xojo is very much aware that most/all are currently not statisfied with their MSSQLServerPlugin. @Travis H has just fixed one of the reported issues. That shows they are reading along - and working on MSSQL related Cases in Feedback. And one has to assume it's in their interest to provide us with a working "in-house solution" to use MSSQL - otherwise they wouldn't have fixed what has come up so quickly.

    But I think it's a fact that fixing this single issue with MSSQLServerPlugin is not enough. It seems there are still some other issues. So please let Xojo know what they are. I've started with what I encountered with this list . I can't test MS-SQL these days - but I would appreciate those reports being looked at again (by Xojo or other developers). Knowing all these issues are solved (or will be, once verified as still-an-issue and fixed) I'd be happy to revisit and use Xojo's Plugin again. Or use it for projects where customers require that.
    You might be using MS-SQL in different ways, and encounter other issues. That's why I've asked: Which ones have I missed? Thanks for adding (or submitting) the Feedback Cases.

    It's a chance for Xojo to show they want their Plugin to be used. They've just made a start - let's let them know what else we need to be able to use their MSSQLPlugin for our projects and use-cases. Then the chances are good that we see more progress the next days/weeks - and maybe/hopefully have something useful for all parties soon.

    Or they may decide it's not in their interest - then I'd tend to agreee with Karen and Bob:

    @Bob K I think it would be much better to not include half functioning, buggy, plugins than including them. Why? Because it leaves a (very poor first / negative) experience

  20. Bob K

    May 24 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Kansas City

    I just added Feedback Case #55778 where I couldn't get a MS SQL Server prepared statement to update a Date or TinyInt field in an existing record. No error on creating the PreparedStatement or in the SQLExecute statement.

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