Deployment - Getting Discouraged

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  2. 2 weeks ago

    Julian S

    Feb 7 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro UK

    Much like Apple making their own hardware, they don't want the hassle of working things out for every bit of hardware out there. Likewise, Xojo don't want the hassle of working out every permutation of linux which is why the onus is on the developer/host.

    Would you ask Ford why you car skids on ice when its using summer tyres?

  3. Julia T

    Feb 7 Sandy Hook, Connecticut

    If my hosting service is expected to supply me with "a list of all installed libraries, OS versions, etc.", why can't the Xojo Cloud people just create and publish a similar dump of their installed libraries, OS versions, etc?

  4. Julian S

    Feb 7 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro UK

    @Julia T If my hosting service is expected to supply me with "a list of all installed libraries, OS versions, etc.", why can't the Xojo Cloud people just create and publish a similar dump of their installed libraries, OS versions, etc?

    Because that would compromise their security. One of the vectors is knowing whats installed on a target so you can find out easily if there are exploitable vulnerabilities.

  5. Julia T

    Feb 7 Sandy Hook, Connecticut

    So it looks like a dead-end, even with personal high-level support from my client's hosting provider:

    "Unfortunately, glibc cannot be updated, as that is a core library for the operating system. It would require a new server with a different OS."

  6. Julian S

    Feb 7 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro UK

    What are they running?

  7. Julia T

    Feb 7 Sandy Hook, Connecticut

    @Julian S What are they running?

    centOS 6

  8. brian f

    Feb 7 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Chilly California
    Edited 2 weeks ago

    @Julia T centOS 6

    Yes you would need to have CentOS 7.x (x64) for the GLIBC version you need

  9. Julian S

    Feb 7 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro UK
    Edited 2 weeks ago

    @Julia T centOS 6

    https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/176489/how-to-update-glibc-to-2-14-in-centos-6-5

    Having not used linux full time for 20 years, your mileage may vary.

    Whether the host will be willing or not to do this is another matter.

    Did you try the 32bit thing I mentioned earlier, I think that doesn't need 2.14

  10. Phillip Z

    Feb 7 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Florence, SC

    That is the nature of shared hosting - it is shared. You can't say "please update the glibc version"

  11. John M

    Feb 7 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro New York / New Jersey
    Edited 2 weeks ago

    @Julia T centOS 6

    This is exactly what I ran into with inMotion, the company that hosted my web site for many years. They have thousands and thousands of servers, all running centOS 6, and they're going to keep them all running the exact same OS because it's easier to maintain, they can swap identical hardware in and out without having to think about software requirements, and their technicians are all trained for 6. No way they'll upgrade a small number of servers to centOS 7.

    So I moved my account to ServerWarp, which is a smaller company that is there to be helpful.

  12. Mark S

    Feb 7 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro, XDC Speakers

    You can get a Windows Server VPS (2016 or 2012 R2) here for $29.99 per month and it includes virus protection. Not the cheapest but it works and the tech support is the best I have experienced. If you want to go LINUX you can save money but Windows makes configuring pretty easy since I am not very LINUX fluent.

    https://hostek.com/hosting/windows/vps/windows-server-hosting.html

    I run the Silver version and it works well but if the load is light the starter version probably would be OK if the Xojo app is not too big.

    In the long run I gave up on CGI due to performance issues and run stand alone Xojo Web Apps with NGINX in the front to handle multiple domains on a single IP. CGI also adds some to the server overhead with a Web server and the config complexity. NGINX also manages the Certs and HTTPS. There are some threads here on NGINX setup and config. If you want to consider NGINX on Windows I would be happy to share my config info.

  13. Daniel T

    Feb 8 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro

    @Oliver O Once we overcome the "Linux-is-complicated" mental block of the typical Windows user (as I had and was), then you quickly google on how to setup Webmin or Virtualmin on your linux vps. No witchcraft at all, and from that webinterface you manage everything necessary. No need to overload your server with a GUI.

    Honest question: would either of those tools help Julia resolve her deployment issues?

    Linux is solid, secure, robust...but unfortunately it is needlessly complex, and that's not a 'mindset.' I would call it an emergent property of both its developer culture and the dozens...hundreds...of competing distros. macOS or Windows would become more complicated overnight if there were dozens of new organizations shipping their own customized versions with their own library load outs. It's just the nature of the thing.

  14. Ralph A

    Feb 8 Santa Monica, California

    Can't Julia just deploy her app on Xojo Cloud or ServerWarp, and put a link on her company Web site that points to that?

  15. Julian S

    Feb 8 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro UK

    The client already has a linux server, I think Julia is trying to deploy to that to keep the clients costs to a minimum.

  16. Jean-Yves P

    Feb 8 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Europe (France, Besançon)

    for now the cost of deployment is at the maximum (and has not been reached ...)

  17. Oliver O

    Feb 8 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro https://udemy.seminar.pro
    Edited 2 weeks ago

    @Daniel T Honest question: would either of those tools help Julia resolve her deployment issues?
    ...

    Well, either you spend more money for hosting, or more time with learning. Julia was able to master Xojo programming so she definitely is able to learn how to manage a linux vps.

    Otherwise there is no such thing like running Xojo webapps on cheap shared webhosting. The time that is lost by trying to make such thing work would be better invested in learning how to install virtualmin/webmin and then using it to setup firewall rules and automatic security updates.

  18. Daniel T

    Feb 8 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro

    @Oliver O Well, either you spend more money for hosting, or more time with learning. Julia was able to master Xojo programming so she definitely is able to learn how to manage a linux vps.

    Of that I have no doubt. But $20/month vs $10/month? If I spend an hour trying to get something running on Linux I just paid for the difference for a year.

    To be clear, I have recommended and used Linux before. But Linux headaches weigh on my mind any time I decide between a Linux and a Windows VPS.

  19. Julia T

    Feb 8 Sandy Hook, Connecticut

    @Julian S https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/176489/how-to-update-glibc-to-2-14-in-centos-6-5

    Having not used linux full time for 20 years, your mileage may vary.

    Whether the host will be willing or not to do this is another matter.

    Did you try the 32bit thing I mentioned earlier, I think that doesn't need 2.14

    Yup, tried a 32-bit build and no joy. Will see if I can get the client's IT department to set it up on serverwarp or some other compatible service. The calculator is a "fun" side project and not really what the client pays me to do, although they support it in the hope that it may one day drive traffic to their site.

  20. Alexis C

    Feb 10 Pre-Release Testers Puerto Rico, USA

    is any way to some one connect by ssh and help

  21. Julia T

    Feb 12 Sandy Hook, Connecticut

    @Michel B The "high price" part is debatable. In fact, if you factor in your precious time wasted fighting abstruse Linux configurations, Xojo Cloud is a steal.

    Before ServerWarp and Xojo Cloud, developers had to contend with Linux in all it's glory and horror. I know, I was there. When 1701 came along, it felt like a divine light descending upon us poor developers. I never looked back. Even the motions that ServerWarp required to be, were nothing as compared to the dark ages of trial and error.

    Xojo Cloud is truly a turn key ready environment which requires very little knowledge of the underlying mumbo jumbo. For anyone who started with Desktop and wants a no headaches platform, it is superb.

    My job is not to be sysadmin. It is to create applications that run right away. I refuse to deal with countless dependencies and cryptic error messages.

    Then @Michel B probably you should move your demo cgi apps linked to on https://rubberviews.com/rubberviewswe.html to XC so that they don't give an Internal Server Error :D

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