Why does the Xojo documentation stink so badly (with example)?

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  2. 2 weeks ago

    William K

    Nov 27 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Chico, CA

    Joost, I'm not necessarily complaining about how accurate the documentation is, just how difficult it is to find things. Not only is the help menu (where most newcomers will turn to find basic information) confusing, even if you happen to pick the right starting point (like docs.xojo.com ), there's no guarantee that you'll stay there.

    Searching for "Dark Mode" on docs.xojo.com leads to a useful write up, but the header (green box) says that it's in the "Users Guide". Clicking on the "Users Guide" in the sidebar takes you completely out of the docs back into the Dev Center where you'll fine absolutely nothing useful and no obvious way of getting back to the original site.

    Christian, you insinuated that the "developer" site is old, and the "docs" site is newer. That's certainly not obvious, and, if true is an incredibly important distinction that needs to be made.

  3. Derk J

    Nov 28 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro

    You can make a feedback report about parts of documentation missing or wrongly typed etc.

  4. Emile S

    Nov 28 Europe (France, Strasbourg)

    I took DataBaseRecord example lately, modify it to fit my needs and it never was working…

    until:
    I close the internet connection (WiFi),
    Power Off the computer,
    Drink a cup of coffe (around noon).

    Reboot, added a Commit, and some more lines…

    And then, all of a suffen, it started to work.

    I go home, still off line, removed the added lines, it started to work.

    I wanted to make a report, but it is still working… and don’t ask me why.

    Xojo 2015r1
    El Capitan
    MacBook Pro 13" (4 y/o).

  5. Beatrix W

    Nov 28 Pre-Release Testers Europe (Germany)

    When in doubt use the Goggle.

    The documentation from Xojo - in spite of the total sillyness of having 2 documentations - is better than the one from Christian (thin) and Valentina (barely understandable russian english).

  6. Alberto D

    Nov 28 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro

    Recently they changed to a new docs.xojo site, also, they are moving some information from developer.xojo to docs.xojo. This things take time to completely finish.

    Anything (everything?) could be better and better differs from one person to another.

  7. Paul L

    Nov 28 Xojo Inc http://docs.xojo.com
    Edited 2 weeks ago

    @WilliamKoperwhats Searching for "Dark Mode" on docs.xojo.com leads to a useful write up, but the header (green box) says that it's in the "Users Guide". Clicking on the "Users Guide" in the sidebar takes you completely out of the docs back into the Dev Center where you'll fine absolutely nothing useful and no obvious way of getting back to the original site.

    I'm sorry you had trouble finding this info, I hope it will be better in the future.

    The User Guide is in the process of being updated and moved over to the wiki (https://docs.xojo.com ). so that everything is in one location. We are talking about 1000s of pages of docs though, so this is not going to happen instantly.

    As content is moved it appears in the User Guide category and there are already many pages available: https://docs.xojo.com/Category:User_Guide

    Edit: Fixed typo in URL

  8. Sascha S

    Nov 28 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Germany

    @Paul L [url=(http;//docs.xojo.com](http;//docs.xojo.com[/url])

    On Windows Chrome this leads to a white "about:blank" page. ;)

  9. Alberto D

    Nov 28 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro

    @SaschaSchneppmueller On Windows Chrome this leads to a white "about:blank" page. ;)

    Is hard to type : with one finger ;)

  10. Eduardo G

    Nov 28 Pre-Release Testers Europe (Madrid, Spain)

    @Beatrix W When in doubt use the Goggle.

    This. Xojo documentation is excelent. The failure point is the search engine. I use it constantly, but I never search in it (other than direct access from right-clicking the user guide).

  11. Björn E

    Nov 28 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Iceland

    I think it is mostly the double documentation that makes no sense. And I tend to always get the old one when I don't want the old one and then the few times I get something else then I to often get broken links.

    Other than that then I think the content in the documentation is usually not bad.

  12. Art G

    Nov 28 Prescott AZ

    My only complaint is that it now takes more clicks to get the info you want. Method definitions and examples used to be on the same page as the class.

  13. Tim S

    Nov 28 Canterbury, UK

    How do I make a documentation change request? Fora new Feedback case, there appear to be (a) Bug and (b) Feature request, categories, only.

    Also: if the two sets of doc are going to be merged, that is a good thing (obvs). But the new and now largely gone developer doc set did have a nice feedback feature at the bottom of each page. This allowed me to comment on and request additions to a specific page (or mention typos etc). Could we have this on the final doc set?

    In general the pages are too often incomplete at the detail level. For example, although it says I can make a zero length memoryblock, there is some doubt about whether I can successfully set LittleEndian=false for such a memoryblock, at least before I've put some data in it. Further, if I have:

    Dim  aa, bb as memoryblock
    aa = new memoryblock (20)
    aa.LittleEndian = false
    bb = aa

    Now, after some testing it seems that I then have to set the LittleEndian property for bb - separately. This is not mentioned.

  14. Dave S

    Nov 28 San Diego, California USA

    @Tim S How do I make a documentation change request?

    I don't know if the is the "right" way, or if he would prefer people did not do it this way... .but I've in the past just sent them directly to Paul Lefebvre

  15. Tim S

    Nov 28 Canterbury, UK

    @Dave S I don't know if the is the "right" way, or if he would prefer people did not do it this way... .but I've in the past just sent them directly to Paul Lefebvre

    Well yes, and after using the bottom-of-page feedback method, I've had a couple of exchanges with Paul too. However I don't know whether Paul is "Mr Documentation" or "Mr In-charge-of-documentation". I'm happy to use whatever suits Xojo best and to make hopefully useful doc change suggestions.

  16. Paul L

    Nov 28 Xojo Inc http://docs.xojo.com

    The bottom of every page at docs.xojo.com has a "Send Doc Feedback" link to this page: https://docs.xojo.com/Xojo_Documentation:Leave_Feedback

    Essentially, an email to docs@xojo.com is fine for most things. Feedback works as well, so whatever is most convenient for you is fine with me.

  17. Sam R

    Nov 28 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Hengchun, Pingtung, Taiwan

    You should read documentation for Apple's latest features. Yeah it's great that you've documented this function and it's parameters (which are obvious), but you could at least provide some description of what this function does and what the different parameters do?

    Or when they deprecate stuff (which they do so frequently now), what's the replacement function?

    Some of their documentation is in man page format, some none at all and you have to look in the header files. It's also really awesome when they add a new data type, that's actually an alias to an existing data type, without documenting WHAT the data type is. Again, you have to go hunting through header files to trace it all the way back.

    We got it pretty easy with Xojo.

  18. Michael D

    Nov 28 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro

    Xojo docs are great - if you can find them. When I search for info (from within Xojo 2018 IDE, or from Safari / Google search) - it seems like I randomly find the "bad" or "old" documentation. Sometimes I find the good stuff.

    I agree that having multiple versions, and poor search, is the big problem.

  19. Emile S

    Nov 29 Europe (France, Strasbourg)

    I want “Inside Mac Books for the Second Millenium” !

  20. Tim S

    Nov 29 Canterbury, UK

    @Paul L The bottom of every page at docs.xojo.com has a "Send Doc Feedback" link to this page: https://docs.xojo.com/Xojo_Documentation:Leave_Feedback

    Essentially, an email to docs@xojo.com is fine for most things. Feedback works as well, so whatever is most convenient for you is fine with me.

    Thanks, I missed that :-)

  21. Derek D

    Nov 29 Pre-Release Testers Newnan, GA. USA

    @Michael D Xojo docs are great - if you can find them. When I search for info (from within Xojo 2018 IDE, or from Safari / Google search) - it seems like I randomly find the "bad" or "old" documentation. Sometimes I find the good stuff.

    I agree that having multiple versions, and poor search, is the big problem.

    THIS. At least a few years ago, this was my biggest issue with the docs. It would help having fully updated docs, with examples, right inside the software without the need for googling and other such things. The nature of search engine indexing makes this a gamble some of the time getting reliable info.

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