Where are xojo

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  2. last week

    @Tim H And I'm surprised PHP wasn't higher on the list.

    Me too.

    @Tim P PHP stands for People Hate PHP, so I'm not really surprised about that.

    Then it should be OPHP - Other People Hate PHP. I've had to use PHP a lot in the last few months and I've grown to love it.

    I've even got my eye on a PeachPie .

  3. ronaldo f

    Sep 13 Philippines

    For me, xojo is not for employment. It's for Entrepreneur.

  4. Vigia L

    Sep 13 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro

    Regardless of rank, only effective.

  5. Emile S

    Sep 14 Europe (France, Strasbourg)

    @ronaldoflorendo For me, xojo is not for employment. It's for Entrepreneur.

    Your business as Entrepreneur using Xojo goes well, and you need to hire two people to face the amount of work.

    Now, for you, Xojo is for employment. ;)

  6. For employment people, nobody ever heared about Xojo. Put Xojo on your CV and you don't even get invited for a job. And when you are invited, nobody is impressed.

    On the other hand, put Python on your CV and you are in great demand.

    Will that mean Xojo is bad? Not at all, if you create applications in your own business and they forfill your customer expectations, you are fine. There will indeed no questions asked.

    Self-employed people or having a consultancy can benefit greatly with Xojo, however when working for a company as employee there are little or no benefits of using Xojo. It depend greatly of who you are working for.

  7. Emile S

    Sep 15 Europe (France, Strasbourg)

    Chris, you are right.

    >On the other hand, put Python on your CV and you are in great demand.
    And if you are hired ans never saw a single Python file, you are in troubles ;)

    I have links to example applications in my CV, and no development tool at all. But when the phone ring from a hiring person, I get questions that have C Sharp, Java, .Net, and so on. (not Cobol, yet).

    @Chris V if you create applications in your own business and they forfill your customer expectations, you are fine

    Yes.

  8. Richard D

    Sep 15 Pre-Release Testers Europe (UK, London)

    remember back in the 90's when MS Access was only around for 2-3 years and someone actually say in the CV that they has 10 years MS Access experience

  9. Joost R

    Sep 15 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro The Netherlands

    @Richard D remember back in the 90's when MS Access was only around for 2-3 years and someone actually say in the CV that they has 10 years MS Access experience

    Perhaps this person was the developer of MS Access itself, which must have taken some time before it got "stable".

  10. Richard D

    Sep 15 Pre-Release Testers Europe (UK, London)

    more like people bluffing...

  11. Emile S

    Sep 15 Europe (France, Strasbourg)

    I heard about some job opening that was asked a WIndows XP guy (no gal ?) with ( years of experience in 2002… ;)

    Same kind of idiot.

  12. Markus W

    Sep 15 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro #JeSuisHuman Germany, Heidelb...

    @Jeff T One of my favourite tools was Access.
    A swiss army knife if I ever had one.
    Built in programming language, charting, reports, database, winforms, use of OCXs..
    No additional installs required if the user already had it.

    That last sentence made me laugh out loud ;)

  13. Emile S

    Sep 16 Europe (France, Strasbourg)

    I just ended to read some job opening on the French Pole emploi (French Job OpeningCenter ?))…

    All [ANN] for engineers / developers holds in the title .Dot, C, C++, C#, Java, PHP, and so on… You never saw a C source ? Go to the next entry ! ;) or :(, depends.

    Go figure.

  14. Russ L

    Sep 16 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro

    I thought i'd add my experience, since it directly affected my use of Xojo.

    We had a long standing client/customer who (around 2 years ago) specifically told me they would move away from using us if we continued with Xojo. This was in large part because they had another supplier who used .net and their programs just had more 'polish'. They are a large part of our income, not that we would be in trouble without them, but big enough that finding a replacement client would be a pain. I had to take the decision to move to .net. Once i moved, i realised the *new* Xojo framework was actually very similar and it became easier and easier quite quickly. It was also faster and the screens were a lot nicer to view ( i know that the windows framework has had lots of love recently, so perhaps this is now less of an issue). It's at a point now where i would be highly unlikely to go back to Xojo for windows desktop programming.

    I still love Xojo and I truly miss using it on a daily basis, so I lurk around these forums patiently waiting for this new Web framework to arrive because then i will (hopefully) be able to get back on board. I cannot bear the web development in vb.net and have found nothing that compares to Xojo for easily producing web applications.

    anyway, thats my 2p worth.

  15. Karen A

    Sep 16 Pre-Release Testers

    @Russ L We had a long standing client/customer who (around 2 years ago) specifically told me they would move away from using us if we continued with Xojo. This was in large part because they had another supplier who used .net and their programs just had more 'polish'.

    That should concern Xojo inc...When it's the looks and performance of the apps produced, and NOT just about language/IDE (some insist on using a "mainstream" language), Xojo Inc should take head...

    - Karen

  16. Eduardo G

    Sep 16 Pre-Release Testers Europe (Madrid, Spain)

    @Joost R Perhaps this person was the developer of MS Access itself, which must have taken some time before it got "stable".

    I know this is a bit of a joke and this is off-topic, but I love the story behind MS Access which is, really, the interesting story behind FileMaker :D

  17. Eduardo G

    Sep 16 Pre-Release Testers Europe (Madrid, Spain)

    @LouisDesjardins As Jeff said, Access had everything built-in.

    I've been trying to wean a developer of mine away from Access (because it's becoming unsupported by the company) and this is the hardest part.

    I won't argue about the quality of the code IDE in Access or the help it had for developers (I think in this respect Xojo surprisingly is better, something that you don't hear often regarding code edition and IDEs) but it's true that Access has an absurdly low barrier of entry for would-be developers when they need to turn a CRUD app out.

    Leaving aside the use of OCX and integration with the rest of office probably the biggest advantage is how quick and easy it is to throw a data-linked grid with advanced features (all of which you can eventually get to in Xojo, and you can later recycle, of course, but you don't have them from the get-go).

    This, along with having a built-in database always intertwined with your screens, makes building basic (and not so basic) applications a breeze.

    It also makes it REALLY hard to migrate away from Access and you hit a barrier sooner or later when you need to grow your application beyond what Access can comfortably do, but by then you've solved the problem for many years and with any luck your compant is ready for a new tool rather than a change, so it may not become a problem.

  18. Richard D

    Sep 16 Pre-Release Testers Europe (UK, London)

    @EduardoGutierrez de Oliveira I know this is a bit of a joke and this is off-topic, but I love the story behind MS Access which is, really, the interesting story behind FileMaker :D

    what interesting story about FileMaker???

  19. Eduardo G

    Sep 16 Pre-Release Testers Europe (Madrid, Spain)

    @Richard D what interesting story about FileMaker???

    Most of this is from memory, with a couple double-checks into wikipedia to confirm dates. As such some of it may be a bit inaccurate, as it was a long time ago and while at the time most of this was news there's not a lot of digital records (or easy to search ones).

    Also, as this is seriously off-topic, I'd be OK with it being deleted...

    FileMaker is the successor to Nutshell, developed by Nashoba Systems but distributed by leading Edge. Nutshell was a popular DOS-Based database in the early 80s.

    When the Macintosh popped-up Nashoba decided to get into the GUI bandwagon and developed a form-building front-end for Nutshell. Leading Edge passed on what they saw as a passing fad and Nashoba got Forethought, Inc to publish for them this new version. They called it "FileMaker" to distinguish the new GUI product from the DOS "Nutshell" they used to have.

    Forethought famously also was working on a presentation software for Mac and Windows at the time and, through a cash injection from Apple (through an Apple venture fund), debuted PowerPoint for mac in early 1987. The software was an immediate success, which along with FileMaker put forethought in the map.

    Microsoft had been shopping for a presentation product to complement Word and upon seeing FileMaker and PowerPoint they decided to drop their then-current candidate (the absurdly excellent and unjustly forgotten MORE outliner from Dave Winer) and arrange an acquisition, looking to build a suite of applications to complement Word and Excel.

    Less than half a year after Apple pushed PowerPoint and Sculley directly presented PowerPoint and called presentations as the next killer application, possibly even bigger than Desktop Publishing; Microsoft purchased one of the biggest players for Macintosh.

    For Microsoft, who'd been trying to put Microsoft File on the map as a consumer-level database, Forethought solved several problems. FileMaker solved the Database Problem and PowerPoint solved the slides problem (at the time PowerPoint was created to present on screen or by printing slides, as presentations were mostly made through overhead projectors).

    Interestingly, during negotiations Nashoba (the real owners of FileMaker) refused to relinquish the rights to Microsoft and started to self-publish (starting from FileMaker 4). It would take a few years from Microsoft, who had to go back to the drawing board, to get MS Access 1.0 supporting their JetRed database platform, which was barely in R&D when FileMaker was in negotiations.

    FileMaker, on the other hand, continued getting popular and when Apple created Claris, a company that existed to give confidence to third-party developers that there was a future in developing for the mac even if you were not Apple. Claris offered consumer-level applications (MacWrite, MacPaint and MacDraw, as well as AppleWorks). The spectacularly phenomenal ClarisWorks came from AppleWorks, which in turn was a package developed by StyleWare that Apple got for Claris. The database in the early ClarisWorks was clearly a "lite" version of FileMaker.

    (Apple created another company for developing software, ACI –later ACIUS and nowadays 4D–, which in turn had the spectacular 4D database engine, still being sold today. The 80s was a great time for Databases. Helix also came around the same time and still exists today)

    After the years passed Claris discontinued or sold most of their software but kept FileMaker, which has never stopped being strong (and suffers from a similar fate as Xojo: Extremely powerful and tremendously easy to use, but marred by not being free or famous outside its market) and Claris eventually renamed to FileMaker, inc. which persists to this day.

  20. 7 days ago

    For an alternative to Access / Filemaker keep your eye on Paradigma. They already have database and reports and are in the early stages of implementing forms (I believe they're using Qt controls and JavaScript).

  21. Eduardo G

    Sep 17 Pre-Release Testers Europe (Madrid, Spain)

    @Steve W Qt controls

    I have learned to consider this a deal breaker for me.

    I understand the benefits and why people prefer them, but I have an irrational aversion to QT after so many years using it.

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