Please review ticket

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  2. 4 months ago

    Paul S

    May 25 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Europe (Netherlands, Den Haag)

    See thread STOP POSTING IN THE PRO CHANNEL!

    The reaction of Dana explains why discussions are no longer possible.
    https://forum.xojo.com/47582-stop-posting-in-the-pro-channel/p1#p386569

  3. Alwyn B

    May 25 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Johannesburg, South Africa

    Ah, ok... didn't realise they closed that channel. Thank you for clarifying.

  4. Joost R

    May 25 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro The Netherlands

    @Alwyn B It says I don't have permission to post in the Pro channel even though I have a Pro license...

    Luckily the "getting started" channel is still available, so we can move our most intelligent discussions there. As long as we get our issues solved and have a good time, who cares ?

  5. Henry F

    May 25 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro

    @Alwyn B, I added my points to it. Still looks like it is ranked 44th.

    Henry

  6. Alwyn B

    May 26 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Johannesburg, South Africa

    Thanks Henry.

  7. 3 months ago

    Alwyn B

    Jun 12 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Johannesburg, South Africa

    bump...

  8. Markus W

    Jun 13 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro #JeSuisHuman Germany, Heidelb...
    Edited 3 months ago

    @Joost R Luckily the "getting started" channel is still available, so we can move our most intelligent discussions there.

    So sorry you have to slum it with the rest of us. It always amazes me how many people have a need to feel superior … evidence to the contrary be damned and all, especially as the access to the Pro forum was governed not by brain power but by how much money you spend, intelligently or otherwise … I think those people are usually called “snobs” …

    And the “proper” channel would be “general”, especially as Alwyn tries to garner as much support as possible. But of course you knew that, being amazingly intelligent and all that, you were just making a point about still feeling raw about having lost your exclusive club status …

    But that’s just my 2c, and I’m clearly not up to your exalted level … I rather stick with Samuel Clemens who allegedly said: “I wouldn’t want to belong to any club that would have me as a member”.

    P.S. … and if you “liked” Joost’s condescending post then shame on you too.

  9. Don L

    Jun 13 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Florence, South Carolina USA

    Wow! I must be blind! I only saw two things in Alwyn's initial post here:

    1. A polite request to the community to lobby some support for a critical need he had
    2. Registering his surprise (like all the rest of us did) at finding the Pro Channel had changed

    Neither of which rises to the catcall of "elitism" or "snobs", but instead, demonstrates what this forum has been about for years ... the XOJO community working together to help each other. It's a shame if someone with a longstanding personal issue with XOJO's pricing/licensing uses this to twist it into a personal affront as was done here. Those people would be better served aiming their anger at XOJO ... not it's community members.

  10. Julian S

    Jun 13 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro UK

    I felt that the only reason Alwyn wanted to post into Pro is that they have more points at their disposal in terms of bumping feedback up the ranks.

    @Markus W P.S. … and if you “liked” Joost’s condescending post then shame on you too.

    I think you missed the joke, clearly the next part of his statement "As long as we get our issues solved and have a good time, who cares ?" shows that he is indifferent as to how the forum is organised/segregated.

    /shrug

    More :) :D less :( >:(

  11. Joost Rongen his remark has to interpreted as "humorous". I also speak and understand the Dutch language. When somebody makes such a remark here in Belgium or the Netherlands, people recognize the true humorous meaning, kind of humor. Believe me, people will laugh with it including myself.

    However, in a multi cultural environment the true meaning is easily misunderstood and then it is confused by a kind of discrimination tone. I think that is what Markus Winter has confused. He did not understand the correct tone of the remark.

    What we can learn from the remark is that we have to be very cautious because in a multi cultural environment, even the simplest humor can easily be faulty translated.

    Please, drop this issue. Lets go back to the subject of Alwyn Bester's request. Thank you.

    Chris

  12. Rich H

    Jun 13 Pre-Release Testers

    I agree with Don.

    Keep in mind when Xojo switched to esoTalk, the pro channel was sold as a way to receive priority support from Xojo staff that was included with the Xojo Pro license. Regardless of what was or was not posted in that channel, it is ilreaviant.

    There is nothing snobbish about posting on the Pro channel. If someone paid for Xojo Pro, they have every right to use that channel as they were entitled as part of the bundle they purchased.

    TLDR; The pro channel access was sold as a feature of buying Xojo Pro for priority support from Xojo staff. Criticizing users from taking advantage of what they purchased is a misunderstanding of what Xojo Pro users were entitled too.

  13. Dana B

    Jun 13 Xojo Inc Austin, Texas

    Let's all remember to be nice to one another, there is no reason to get confrontational.

    Regarding the Pro channel, after a discussion about it's purpose, we concluded most were in favor of closing it to put more discussions in front of the greater community. In reality, there were very few posts on it and TBH no one really asked about it being shut down until it had been closed for comments for a month. We want the forum to work for YOU. If we get enough requests to re-open it, it would be worth considering. Maybe having a Pro-only channel isn't the right solution. We're certainly open to suggestions. But given that the Pro-only forum was not used regularly by most Pro users, it seemed like it wasn't serving its purpose.

  14. Tanner L

    is not verified Jun 13 Pre-Release Testers Toronto, Canada

    My 2¢. Pro Channel -1

  15. Markus W

    Jun 13 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro #JeSuisHuman Germany, Heidelb...

    Funny. I never said anything about Alwyn‘s post being snobbish - I was responding to Joost’s comment.

    The first part of Joost’s comment was snobbish, the second part was clearly sarcastic, otherwise it makes no sense at all. I got that. But funny? No.

    It’s everyone’s decision how they respond to comments. If I hear a racist, sexist, or arrogant comment then I WILL say something. Because I don’t think that’s ok. And I’d rather risk being banned (as has been threatened before) than keep my mouth shut.

  16. Alwyn B

    Jun 13 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Johannesburg, South Africa

    Hi guys,

    Just to throw my 2c into the conversation...

    It's been a while since I was active on the forums and I didn't realise the pro channel was deprecated until now. I thought that posting in the pro channel would be a way get Xojo's attention faster about the urgency of the OpenGL issue. In the past I used the pro channel to only raise issues about serious showstopper bugs, more than trying to tap into the expertise of the community.

    But now in hindsight, is is actually better to post in channels open to everyone, since it lobbies more support from the whole community for ticket points.

    I didn't realise the "to pro or not to pro" debate was such a heated topic. FWIW, personally I don't mind in which channel the conversation occurs, as long as Xojo is made aware of important issues in a timely fashion.

    Thank you for everyone who threw some of their points towards this OpenGL issue. It see the ticket is already at #23 and has now been verfied ;-) thanks Xojo gurus... much appreciated.

  17. Markus W

    Jun 13 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro #JeSuisHuman Germany, Heidelb...

    If I overreacted then I apologize, especially to Joost. But I don't think his comment was funny, and I don't like comments that denigrate others. If I see one, I will shoot it down - and yes, I'm fully aware of the irony of "doing onto others what they do [to me/others]". But I work on the assumption that a taste of their own medicine might be helpful.

    I also realize that some things can be funny even if they are racist, sexist, or snobbish. But are they funny to both sides? Or at the expense of one side? For example the following is a good sexist joke by Mark Twain [a man]: "The average woman would rather have beauty than brains, because the average man can see better than he can think." … both sexes can laugh at that one, and women have the last laugh - even though it might take some men a while to catch on ;)

    I worked in Academia, and I worked on building sites (mostly to finance my studies). With blue-collar workers you got the occasional choice words, but it was always straight at you, and then it was done and dusted. In Academia, you got smiles and back-stabbing and endless grudges. I know which one I prefer. And one issue that has always been close to my heart is that white-collar workers are not "better" than blue-collar workers, even though most seem to think so and take great pride in being "more intelligent" than the "worker bees" … that always irks me.

    Well, truly intelligent people know two things:

    (1) they know the difference between achievement and privilege. They didn't earn their intelligence. It's nothing to be proud of that you are born more intelligent, taller, whiter, blonder, American/Russian/Chinese, straight/gay/lesbian etc etc. - but you CAN be proud of things you achieve,

    (2) they know that it is only through the efforts of others that they can do what they do, and should be more grateful than arrogant. For example I can isolate genes, purify proteins, modify cells, but I can't repair a car or the oven, make a pen, or live of the land without poisoning myself. Without thousands of others I wouldn't be able to do what I am doing - I'm truly standing on the shoulders of giants.

    So anyone feels like being racist, sexist, or a snob, then I'm happy to be the brick-wall they run into. Consequences be damned.

  18. Why is it that Markus Winter rarely provides any valuable participation? Most of what I see from him is negative - totally worthless to even read what he posts. Grow up, Markus.

  19. Dave S

    Jun 15 San Diego, California USA

    @Rafael H Why is it that Markus Winter rarely provides any valuable participation? Most of what I see from him is negative - totally worthless to even read what he posts. Grow up, Markus.

    Perhaps because you haven't read the entireity of things he has posted... just a guess

  20. Louis D

    Jun 15 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Montreal, QC, Canada

    +1.

    Markus helped many of us on the forums, I can personnaly attest to that.

    It is true that he has been bitter of late and we are all hoping that he returns to better dispositions. But to say he "rarely provides any valuable participation" is a very inaccurate statement.

  21. Dana B

    Jun 15 Xojo Inc Austin, Texas

    This converstion is off topic. To continue this discussion please start a new thread in the Off Topic channel.

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