This article made me really curious what Xojo users' reactions might be [Web apps]

  1. 8 months ago

    Web apps are only getting better

    https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/4/11/17207964/web-apps-quality-pwa-webassembly-houdini

    Anyone care to comment on how Xojo fits into this author's world if it does?

  2. Thom M

    11 Apr 2018 Pre-Release Testers Greater Hartford Area, CT

    @Dave K Web apps are only getting better

    https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/4/11/17207964/web-apps-quality-pwa-webassembly-houdini

    Anyone care to comment on how Xojo fits into this author's world if it does?

    Without compiling Xojo code in JavaScript, pretty much anything offline is impossible. The code must execute on the server.

  3. Karen A

    11 Apr 2018 Pre-Release Testers

    @Thom M Without compiling Xojo code in JavaScript, pretty much anything offline is impossible. The code must execute on the server.

    I think even some limited capability to do that could make a world of practical difference in end user experience.

    - Karen

  4. Thom M

    11 Apr 2018 Pre-Release Testers Greater Hartford Area, CT

    Yes. There were plans to implement a bunch of "non-code" elements that JavaScript could be built from. Such as defining rules on a text field. For example, less than x characters, apply y style. That could all be done client-side.

    Obviously that never happened. Maybe that's part of the announcement coming.

    But any code you write, I have a very hard time believing will ever be client side. I'll be really impressed if that happens, because it's truly a monumental amount of work. Everything in your project not dead-stripped would need to exist in javascript. That's huge. And was actually my first design for WE when it became obvious that it'd never happen.

  5. Tomas J

    11 Apr 2018 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Europe (Germany)

    talking from security point of view, PWA looks like a nightmare, distributed aps & data everywhere? What's about retention? What's about Integrity? Everybody could edit and manipulate his local running WebApp. IMHO PWA is nothing for business.

  6. Michel B

    12 Apr 2018 Pre-Release Testers RubberViews.com

    It is amusing to see fads going through the developer community. These days are PWA time. Until the next hot concept.

    Client side apps have existed for a while, but they did not have the catchy, fancy name for it that would make it "new".

  7. Kevin G

    12 Apr 2018 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Gatesheed, England

    @Thom M Yes. There were plans to implement a bunch of "non-code" elements that JavaScript could be built from. Such as defining rules on a text field. For example, less than x characters, apply y style. That could all be done client-side.

    Obviously that never happened. Maybe that's part of the announcement coming.

    But any code you write, I have a very hard time believing will ever be client side. I'll be really impressed if that happens, because it's truly a monumental amount of work. Everything in your project not dead-stripped would need to exist in javascript. That's huge. And was actually my first design for WE when it became obvious that it'd never happen.

    There are other RAD platforms out there that do this today so it would be possible. The default is for the methods to run on the server but there is a subset of the language that can run locally (with the ability to call methods on the server). As long as you stick to the subset you can specify that the method runs on the client which then converts the code to Javascript. The technology was originally based on a plugin (10+ years ago) but was switched to Javascript a few years back.

  8. Thom M

    12 Apr 2018 Pre-Release Testers Greater Hartford Area, CT

    @Kevin G There are other RAD platforms out there that do this today so it would be possible. The default is for the methods to run on the server but there is a subset of the language that can run locally (with the ability to call methods on the server). As long as you stick to the subset you can specify that the method runs on the client which then converts the code to Javascript. The technology was originally based on a plugin (10+ years ago) but was switched to Javascript a few years back.

    Right, but that’s not really the same thing. That would be like running XojoScript client side, which is much more likely to happen, though the context object is still a concern.

  9. Thom M

    12 Apr 2018 Pre-Release Testers Greater Hartford Area, CT

    @Michel B It is amusing to see fads going through the developer community. These days are PWA time. Until the next hot concept.

    Client side apps have existed for a while, but they did not have the catchy, fancy name for it that would make it "new".

    Client side apps have existed for years. You download a nearly packaged archive that contains all the resources you’re going to need, and just run it. They’re called native apps.

    PWA seems like the solution to a problem we don’t have.

  10. David C

    12 Apr 2018 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Derby, ITM

    How is PWA different from ActiveX, which was panned as a gaping security hole for years? Sounds dangerous to me.

  11. Why are PWAs a security concern? They do not have any extended permissions over a normal website beyond caching some resources so they can continue to function offline. Apart from that the only other difference is the browser chrome (navigation buttons, tabs, etc... ) are hidden so the visual appearance is more like a native app than a website.

  12. Brock N

    12 Apr 2018 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro

    @Thom M Without compiling Xojo code in JavaScript, pretty much anything offline is impossible. The code must execute on the server.

    https://forum.xojo.com/46554-webassembly-and-xojo-web

    I've now seen both C# and Xamarin compiling down to WebAssembly and running in the browser. I don't think it's that farfetched and all the major browsers are backing WebAssembly.

    Currently in Xojo Web I use a bunch of libraries I've made to help build and run javascript/css/html. But I would like to see Xojo bake this into their framework and get more client-side functionality.

    myControl.jquery.css("width","50vh").css("height","20vh").script.run

    Generating a Xojo library based off of a TypeScript Definition file could be the web equivalent of Interops but it would be hard for them to support this when Xojo can't do lamdas and generics.

  13. David C

    12 Apr 2018 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Derby, ITM

    Why are PWAs a security concern?

    I hope you're right. I watched the video above and he mentioned that offline PWA Helper applications can run in your 'browser'. How long before these applications are given file access or are used as malware?

  14. Kevin G

    12 Apr 2018 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Gatesheed, England

    @David C I hope you're right. I watched the video above and he mentioned that offline PWA Helper applications can run in your 'browser'. How long before these applications are given file access or are used as malware?

    I'm pretty sure "PWA" is just the latest buzz word for HTML5 based apps that can operate without an Internet connection. This is just normal HTML/CSS/JS so should be as safe as any other site running in your browser.

    Various forms of this technology have been around for many years. OS X Dashboard Widgets were HTML5 based and Apple have a section on offline apps in their Safari dev guide dating back to 2011.

  15. Michel B

    12 Apr 2018 Pre-Release Testers RubberViews.com

    Indeed PWA is just the latest buzzword, or sales gimmick.

  16. If a PWA gets the job done I'd much prefer it to a native app as the latter present a much greater security/privacy risk. I don't see PWAs as a 'gimmick' at all, I see them as a superior alternative to native apps in any scenario that doesn't require device capabilities that aren't available to a browser.

  17. Michel B

    13 Apr 2018 Pre-Release Testers RubberViews.com

    No need to use a fancy name such as "PWA" to simply mean a JavaScript program.

  18. John A

    13 Apr 2018 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Las Vegas, Nevada

    Hmmm... looks like another version of a 'thin' client that's been touted for years (decades). Thanks to the flexibility of phones and tablets there's no need for a special terminal, now.

  19. @Michel B No need to use a fancy name such as "PWA" to simply mean a JavaScript program.

    A PWA is a distinct type of app with characteristics that differentiate it from other types of app. As well as PWAs there are standard web apps and also JavaScript programs that can access sensitive device capabilities (see NativeScript, DroidScript, Cordova for example) so imo your choice of terminology is rather vague.

  20. Michel B

    13 Apr 2018 Pre-Release Testers RubberViews.com

    What about "client side" ? At any rate, please forgive me, terminology snobbism about yet another of those programmer fads seems to me about as impressive as the zillion JavaScript libraries touted by programmers. In the end it smells the same...

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