New Framework vs Class Framework: need suggestions

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  2. 3 days ago

    Dana B

    Nov 14 Xojo Inc Austin, Texas

    @Markus W Censorship is not the smart move and was the worst of all possible choices, especially under false pretenses ("we lock the thread because it went off-topic, but you can open another one")

    Markus, as we already told you, it was not locked under false pretenses. I locked the thread because it was no longer discussing the original topic, the conversation had shifted to talking about project management, not the Xojo framework.

  3. Peter J

    is not verified Nov 14 KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa

    Koff, koff. Excuse me - just clearing my throat.

  4. Thomas R

    Nov 14 Europe, France, Besancon

    @Peter J Koff, koff. Excuse me - just clearing my throat.

    This is of topic :D

  5. Geoff P

    Nov 14 Xojo Inc Austin, Texas

    @Beatrix W @Geoff Perlman: Censorship always leaves a bad taste in my mouth. What in the topic thread did you fear so much that you had to delete it?

    I'm always horrified how much like an enterprise company the tiny Xojo acts. The jargon sounds exactly like the company I work for - just that my company has a lot more employees (>100k???).

    And no, Feedback is not for communicating. It's for bugs and feature requests. By the time we would have to do a Feedback issue for the new framework mess it's far too late.

    We have a clearly posted set of rules for our forum complete with descriptions of what is and is not acceptable as well as the consequences of violating those rules. We moderated that discussion in accordance with those rules.

    What “jargon” are we using?

  6. 2 days ago

    shao s

    is not verified Nov 15 Sudbury, Ontario, Canada

    You're a guest in their house, show them some respect.. If they close a thread, shrug your shoulders and move on.. Most of us come here for the knowledge and not the drama and politics.. Xojo is going to do what they're going to do.. A vocal minority don't like it, sucks to be them.. Your old code doesn't magically stop working, and you have lots of time to slowly move to the new framework and help them with bug reports.. As of today, the new framework is the future of the language..

  7. Andrew L

    2 days ago San Francisco, CA, USA
    Edited 2 days ago

    @Dana B Markus, as we already told you, it was not locked under false pretenses. I locked the thread because it was no longer discussing the original topic, the conversation had shifted to talking about project management, not the Xojo framework.

    "Locked" implies that it's still visible.

  8. Gavin S

    2 days ago Pre-Release Testers UK

    @Andrew L "Locked" implies that it's still visible.

    It was originally locked before it was deleted.

  9. Andrew L

    2 days ago San Francisco, CA, USA

    I'm afraid I'm not seeing your point.

  10. Gavin S

    2 days ago Pre-Release Testers UK

    @Andrew L I'm afraid I'm not seeing your point.

    Not making a point, I thought you were implying that it was deleted and never locked. It was originally locked for a couple of hours, I think, before it was deleted.

  11. Michel B

    2 days ago Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro

    I can sympathize with Xojo on this one. Their forums, their rules, but on top of it, they don't need bad advertisement.

    If I could, I would delete just the same the stupid one star reviews in the Mac App Store that some jerks posted because they had not read the documentation.

  12. Geoff P

    2 days ago Xojo Inc Austin, Texas

    @Gavin S Not making a point, I thought you were implying that it was deleted and never locked. It was originally locked for a couple of hours, I think, before it was deleted.

    Correct.

  13. Derk J

    2 days ago Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro
    Edited 2 days ago

    The new framework is a good step forward. I like it when i can use it, and i like to keep it that way. With more features it would be even better to use.

    Let's just be fair to eachother. After all, people want to know where Xojo is moving towards, if i understand well.

    For example; Once there is a FB request made, there is work being done. But there is absolutely no visibility in when it's going to be available. We all get the point that Xojo doesn't make promises, but Xojo could give more information about what won't make it into the upcoming release and what will be coming into (and is tested for) an upcoming release and share it trough their channels. Being the forums or blog (announcement?).

    We all know there is no competitor that can move so fast that it will cripple Xojo by releasing this information in a short term before a release. But it helps the community making desicions on their own side. Planning the requirements for software development can be hard, and knowing what (how many or less it may be) will be coming to support (our) the xojo customer development will be a huge improvement. Ofcourse there are Pre-Release testers and so on, but still some features and bug fixes won't make it into the releases.

    I'm aware of the Xojo goals (not saying roadmap) for the long term, still having to know what's coming (for sure, be true here) would be a major step forward.

  14. Norman P

    2 days ago Xojo Inc

    Asking "what will be in the next release" is about the same as asking "when will this be released".
    And Geoff already said why we tend not to do this.

    Its not that we don't have internal plans, timelines and things we are working on and when we would like to see it ship - just things can and do change. Frequently.

    I hope you understand why this is this way

  15. Geoff P

    2 days ago Xojo Inc Austin, Texas

    @Derk J Xojo could give more information about what won't make it into the upcoming release and what will be coming into (and is tested for) an upcoming release and share it trough their channels.

    Rather than make any assumptions, what exactly would you do with this information? How would it impact the way in which you use Xojo? I ask because until we release a version and you can test with it to see if it's got what you need, you have no way of knowing if what we will ultimately make available will be satisfactory to you or not.

  16. Phillip Z

    2 days ago Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Florence, SC

    Personally I am not so concerned with delivery dates of hypotheticals in the future.

    I would like to see you properly finish what you start.

  17. Gavin S

    2 days ago Pre-Release Testers UK

    @Norman P Asking "what will be in the next release" is about the same as asking "when will this be released".
    And Geoff already said why we tend not to do this.

    I think most of us get this and, as I said in another thread recently, I think we do appreciate the high-level "roadmap" that gets filtered down to us through XDC or blog posts, just to know where we're heading, regardless of timeframes.

    In the late 90s, information flowed more slowly and the web was more static. We often waited until software was packed into a cardboard box and sent to shops and then read the back of it to find out what the new features were! Nowadays, everything moves so fast and news/info/gossip is on Twitter in a matter of seconds. So when information stops flowing, everybody assumes the worst. When Xojo iOS target came onto the scene, my assumption was that it would be very different a year or so later but it feels like it hasn't moved much. And I don't really know what to think - is this kind of it? Are you waiting on Android and then both platforms will advance together? These are the kinds of questions I keep asking myself and I know I'm not alone.

    I think that has been the source of the frustration with the new framework. I think most of us actually really like the new framework, even if there are some rough edges that could be smoothed out over time, we just don't know why it seemed to... stop. I expected each release to have exciting new stuff for the new framework. I thought the IDE would quickly adapt it.

    It has been useful over the last couple of days to hear bits and pieces of your plans and goals for the new framework. New controls using the new framework, for example, that makes sense. I care less for the timeframe, we all know that timeframes mean little in software, but I do care if your vision for Xojo lines up roughly with my vision for my software for the forseeable years to come.

    If these kinds of discussion make Xojo Inc feel uncomfortable in public, I sympathize. None of us wants to hurt Xojo but as I said a couple of days ago, it would be great if we had some sort of means to communicate, now and then, and if that's out of the view of search engines, I'm fine with that. We don't expect a constant stream of communication (hey, you've other stuff to do!) but help your committed user base find a better way to communicate concerns so they don't burst out like this every couple of years.

    Thanks to Geoff and Norman for your interactions on this thread.

  18. Phillip Z

    2 days ago Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Florence, SC

    @Gavin S I think that has been the source of the frustration with the new framework. I think most of us actually really like the new framework, even if there are some rough edges that could be smoothed out over time, we just don't know why it seemed to... stop. I expected each release to have exciting new stuff for the new framework. I thought the IDE would quickly adapt it.

    +1

  19. yesterday

    Derk J

    yesterday Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro

    @Geoff P Rather than make any assumptions, what exactly would you do with this information? How would it impact the way in which you use Xojo? I ask because until we release a version and you can test with it to see if it's got what you need, you have no way of knowing if what we will ultimately make available will be satisfactory to you or not.

    Knowing how to workaround bugs that won't be fixed or features we don't get in upcoming releases. Say there is a major bug in Xojo, and it's required to be fixed for a project to be completed. If the IDE doesn't have the fix in the upcoming release, we would know how to move on, find workaround or whatever to solve the issue.

    The current FB point system is nice, but i don't even have a possibilty to change FB points cause those FB requests remain open for so long and there are only 5 places (top 5) as far as i know. And they don't show when they will be released or if they will ever make it into the IDE. Being "Verified" or "Implemented" still doesn't seem to make it into a release for some time*. I'm not saying this is terrible, just mentioning it could be different. Cases that are actually planned should not be able to have points any more in FB perhaps so the points would free up to bet set for another case. And give an E-mail once the points are free to be set to another case.

    * This probably doesn't account for features and fixes that are actually planned (by Xojo) and will be shipped in an upcoming relase.

    Then i also agree with @Phillip Z for

    I would like to see you properly finish what you start.

    Xojo might see it different, i'm not stating or trying to say the above is true, it could even be that it's already so. Then knowing how that works would be great.

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