I think I now hate Apple and High Sierra

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  2. 2 weeks ago

    scott b

    Oct 12 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro local coffee shop

    @Geoff P Perhaps Apple feels that the number of users who use Telenet has dropped so low that providing it with the default install no longer makes sense and those that still use it can get that functionality elsewhere?

    at the office we have downgraded everyone from High Sierra to Sierra since it still has telnet. and we have zero plans to re-upgrade to High Sierra until we get a good solutions for that. I use telnet on a daily basis to test network connectivity. I can’t tell you how many times I telnet to port 80 or 25 or whatever to make sure the connectivity is there on a given server/appliance. this morning at a client’s site I used telnet at least a dozen times and I was only on site for about an hour.

  3. Jon O

    Oct 12 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Chicago Area USA
    Edited 2 weeks ago by Jon O

    @scott b at the office we have downgraded everyone from High Sierra to Sierra since it still has telnet. and we have zero plans to re-upgrade to High Sierra until we get a good solutions for that. I use telnet on a daily basis to test network connectivity. I can’t tell you how many times I telnet to port 80 or 25 or whatever to make sure the connectivity is there on a given server/appliance. this morning at a client’s site I used telnet at least a dozen times and I was only on site for about an hour.

    BUT SCOTT!!! According to some people here, you unnecessarily exposed things to security risks!! :P

    Yeah - right. It was a test for connectivity on a LAN. My point exactly.

    PLEASE SAVE ME FROM MYSELF. APPLE, XOJO AND EVERYONE ELSE PLEASE HELP AND PROTECT ME AS I CAN'T HELP MYSELF!

  4. scott b

    Oct 12 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro local coffee shop

    @Jon O BUT SCOTT!!! According to some people here, you unnecessarily exposed things to security risks!! :P

    yeppers I am a big a$$ security risk. i typed telnet. Please people save me.

  5. Tim P

    Oct 12 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro ⭐️
    Edited 2 weeks ago by Tim P

    @Jon O PLEASE SAVE ME FROM MYSELF. APPLE, XOJO AND EVERYONE ELSE PLEASE HELP AND PROTECT ME AS I CAN'T HELP MYSELF!

    Okay, if you really want... FolderItem, HTTPSocket, and Booleans have been removed from 2017r3 due to repeated complaints of accidental file deletion, and unannounced data transfers. Booleans were removed because it's too easy to have the wrong value.

  6. Jon O

    Oct 12 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Chicago Area USA

    @Tim P Okay, if you really want... FolderItem, HTTPSocket, and Booleans have been removed from 2017r3 due to repeated complaints of accidental file deletion, and unannounced data transfers. Booleans were removed because it's too easy to have the wrong value.

    You forgot variants.

    Oh yeah, those were removed in the new framework! :P

  7. Dave S

    Oct 12 San Diego, California USA

    Next, Apple/Microsoft/Google will announce that the Internet as we know it will be shut down, and all information interchange will be handled by a central AI, that will decide if your request is appropriate, secure and above all produces revenue for the afore mentioned corporations. Those that attempt to violate this new protocol will be subject to detention and other penalties....

    The slogan for this new security entity will be "Its for your own protection"

  8. Geoff P

    Oct 12 Xojo Inc Austin, Texas

    @Jon O You forgot variants.

    Oh yeah, those were removed in the new framework! :P

    They have been replaced with Auto which is a better solution.

    A better example would be encodings. In the new framework you are required to have an encoding when dealing with text. When you are getting text from an outside source (like reading a file), you have to specify the encoding. Why? Because too many people make assumptions or simply ignore it and that causes problems for them which then causes support problems for us. By requiring that the encoding be specified, it solves these issues.

  9. Jon O

    Oct 12 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Chicago Area USA

    @Dave S Next, Apple/Microsoft/Google will announce that the Internet as we know it will be shut down, and all information interchange will be handled by a central AI, that will decide if your request is appropriate, secure and above all produces revenue for the afore mentioned corporations. Those that attempt to violate this new protocol will be subject to detention and other penalties....

    The slogan for this new security entity will be "Its for your own protection"

    "And we will be installing video monitors and cameras everywhere in order to monitor and secure your life."

    Orwell was right. He was just a couple decades off in the timing...

  10. Jon O

    Oct 12 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Chicago Area USA

    @Geoff P They have been replaced with Auto which is a better solution.

    A better example would be encodings. In the new framework you are required to have an encoding when dealing with text. When you are getting text from an outside source (like reading a file), you have to specify the encoding. Why? Because too many people make assumptions or simply ignore it and that causes problems for them which then causes support problems for us. By requiring that the encoding be specified, it solves these issues.

    Obviously you didn't get the joke.

  11. Dave S

    Oct 12 San Diego, California USA

    @Jon O "And we will be installing video monitors and cameras everywhere in order to monitor and secure your life."

    All Apple iMac computers already have this...... :)

  12. Geoff P

    Oct 12 Xojo Inc Austin, Texas

    @Jon O Obviously you didn't get the joke.

    No, I did. :)

    While I understand the desire to commiserate with friends and colleagues, don't forget to do the most effect thing and that's give Apple feedback. You can do that at https://www.apple.com/feedback/ .

  13. Markus W

    Oct 12 #JeSuisHuman Europe (Germany)...

    @Jon O BUT SCOTT!!! According to some people here, you unnecessarily exposed things to security risks!! :P

    Yeah - right. It was a test for connectivity on a LAN. My point exactly.

    PLEASE SAVE ME FROM MYSELF. APPLE, XOJO AND EVERYONE ELSE PLEASE HELP AND PROTECT ME AS I CAN'T HELP MYSELF!

    Well, if you want to go all religious and berserk on it then be my guest, but do it without me … I find this type of "conversation" too silly to participate …

  14. Michael D

    Oct 12 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro

    @Geoff P You can do that at https://www.apple.com/feedback/ .

    Or, you can use:

    I'm sure there are a couple more that I'm forgetting. It's easy...not!

    Apple's ecosystem is looking positively Microsoft-esqe these days: too many cooks in the kitchen.

  15. Kem T

    Oct 12 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro New York

    If Apple had said, "you can't use telnet anymore", I would agree. But they didn't, they said, "we aren't including it anymore". Well, there are a ton of tools that are not installed by default, and it is TRIVIAL to install it yourself. It doesn't even cost anything more than a few minutes, so what is the big deal? Sure, it's momentarily inconvenient, but the fact that you miss it at all probably means that you are qualified to install it yourself.

    I'm not getting this at all.

  16. Beatrix W

    Oct 12 Pre-Release Testers Europe (Germany)

    Geoff Perlmann wrote:

    A better example would be encodings. In the new framework you are required to have an encoding when dealing with text. When you are getting text from an outside source (like reading a file), you have to specify the encoding. Why? Because too many people make assumptions or simply ignore it and that causes problems for them which then causes support problems for us. By requiring that the encoding be specified, it solves these issues.

    Sigh... I deal with encodingless text every day. It's not data, it's text. I know the encoding pretty late when processing the text. Your way of thinking will give me a ton of headaches.

    And back to the topic: I have an IMAP account for testing. No SSL needed. In some mail clients I have problems connecting to the account because they tell me that I need to have SSL.

  17. Jon O

    Oct 12 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Chicago Area USA

    @Markus W Well, if you want to go all religious and berserk on it then be my guest, but do it without me … I find this type of "conversation" too silly to participate …

    It's called being absurd to point out the absurdity of the other side. Maybe the German language doesn't have an equivalent?

  18. Tim J

    Oct 12 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Wailea Maui, HI, USA

    Back in the real Unix days, most Unix platforms provided multiple installation targets. Some were VERY secure, but you could always select the less or even non-secure targets if that's what you needed.

    This has always been one of the things that I have disliked about OS X/Mac OS. You get Apple's idea of a system install and no other options.

    I now have a bundle of tar.gz files containing our normal work needs that we install and compile on all new system installs. Thank goodness "csrutil disable" still works on High Sierra.

  19. Gavin S

    Oct 12 Pre-Release Testers UK

    @Kem T If Apple had said, "you can't use telnet anymore", I would agree. But they didn't, they said, "we aren't including it anymore"

    Imagine the monstrosity the OS and hardware would be if they included all legacy technology since 1984. Change sometimes hurts.

  20. Sam R

    Oct 12 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Hengchun, Pingtung, Taiwan

    @Markus W But I still applaud Apple for being security-minded. And at first encouraging security, now strongly demanding security, and soon insisting on security, can only improve the security mindset.

    But at the same time make silly mistakes such as showing the users passwords instead of password hints!

    @Gavin S Imagine the monstrosity the OS and hardware would be if they included all legacy technology since 1984. Change sometimes hurts.

    Next year, 32-Bit will be gone, so I am expecting the OS to half in size...

    What's kinda frustrating about a lot of the changes that Apple makes, is that they don't give you options any more. In the old days you could pick and choose what gets installed, there were a ton of preference options for configuring your computer to the best way for your workflow. Now it's stark, and if you don't like the changes they make (media keys anyone), tough !@#$%. It takes what 2~3 lines of code and a checkbox in the prefs, then (almost) everyone's happy. It reminds me of the days when MS would use the term "file(s)" because they were too lazy to display "file" or "files" depending on how many you're working on.

    It's like the only person I've seen who uses apps in Full screen on a computer is my sister-in-law, because she uses an iPad more often than not. Yet the resize widget by default sends any window to swallow up the screen. In HDRtist NX, I added an option to revert this behavior, and every once in a while I get someone taking the time out and to write to me and thank me for doing so (again a couple of lines of code and a checkbox).

    There is moving forwards to improve usage of the product, and there's moving sideways or backwards just to say it's the future.

  21. Philip C

    Oct 12 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Cooroy, QLD, Australia

    Just a thought - I have been using FileZilla successfully on High Sierra - using sftp for file transfers is a breeze. It is open source and well constructed.

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